Where are the Black Batsmen?

[wpdavid]

Such as?

The bit about black students being less committed/agressive than their white counterparts. And the comments about black students being disproportionately obese seemed to be overstating your case. As I said earlier, it would be interesting to read a black saffer's take on that particular matter.

That being said, it was, I think, a very good piece. I found it highly informative and, fwiw, well written. btw did you revisit it this afternoon after initially posting the article?

I still think there's parallels with other countries whose national sides have experienced signifcant changes in their racial mix. As well as the WI cricket team & the Brazilian football team over the middle chunk of the 20th century, my mind goes back to the English soccer team in the 1980's and beyond. I remember a programme about black footballers around 1991 in which Ron Noades opined that the black players were OK for the fancy stuff up front and on the wings, but no good for the more solid defensive arts. It was obviously crap even then, but 10 years later three of England's back four were black, and nowadays no-one would even consider that particular viewpoint. Now please don't hear what I'm not saying: I am not for a moment accusing you of the sort of attitude that Noades displayed. But I am pointing out that these things can take a while to change. Obviously the question for SA is how do they tap into this huge chunk of their population in order to give themselves the biggest pool of players in the future.

EDIT
On a completely unrelated matter, did you spot my comment to Richard earlier today regarding the question you posted about the England side with the largest number of 100's to their name? In case you didn't, it transpires that one of the 1968 lineups (possibly 2nd ashes test) had 68 to their name

 

[silentstriker]

The bit about black students being less committed/agressive than their white counterparts. And the comments about black students being disproportionately obese seemed to be overstating your case. As I said earlier, it would be interesting to read a black saffer's take on that particular matter.

But Kev is right, it is not stereotyping to simply talk about a cultural norm:

"We face a very difficult situation in trying to manage obesity. We are up against social and traditional norms that being fat is a sign that you are wealthy, you are successful, you are happy, that your husband can feed you," Steyn said in an interview."

-Source

 

[wpdavid]

But Kev is right, it is not stereotyping to simply talk about a cultural norm:

"We face a very difficult situation in trying to manage obesity. We are up against social and traditional norms that being fat is a sign that you are wealthy, you are successful, you are happy, that your husband can feed you," Steyn said in an interview."

-Source

Thanks for the article. Obviously the quote comes from an older female, but I appreciate that the issue goes beyond that particular segment of the population. Ultimately I'm not accusing anyone of anything very much here. One small section of the article raised my eyebrows, but I do understand that things aren't simple down there.

 

[jeevan]

The bit about black students being less committed/agressive than their white counterparts. And the comments about black students being disproportionately obese seemed to be overstating your case. As I said earlier, it would be interesting to read a black saffer's take on that particular matter.

Obesity as a sign of health may also be a symptom of previously-deprived populations experiencing relative improvement in basic living standards - which transcends race.
Dont know much about black populations in south africa, but my own (very typical) example is indicative of thinking in India.

Grandparents (now deceased) came from very modest backgrounds.
Parents generation made the transition to urban, middle class, living.
My generation brought up in a relative degree of comfort and heavy exposure to
modern society, norms and science.

I tend to cycle between mildly overweight to just-about-right BMI. Late grandmother would prefer and commend the former situation and expressed serious concern in one weight-dropping phase. Parents, uncles and aunts seem to prefer me somewhat half way through since they are pulled between old and new values. Youngest generation possibly always considers me at or below par.

 

[Richard]

it's always fun to challenge what may or may not be racial stereotyping

It is?

 

[Woodster]

Good article Goughy, gave me an insight into an area I am not well educated in. It was well written and very interesting and informative. Good work!

 

[wpdavid]

It is?

Gosh yes. But I'm not in the business of looking to cause offence, so that bit has gone now.

 

[Richard]

Don't worry, you couldn't possibly match my idiocy on that front.

 

[Goughy]

A note on Black African cricket history.

Under the old regime, non-White cricket was run by SACBOC.

SACBOC was formed in 1947 to bring together Indian, Coloured and African cricketers.

This is the first score sheet I found. A non-White Representitive game from 1975. SACBOC SA North vs SACBOC SA South

Interesting to see Rohan Kanhai playing. Also noteworthy that there is barely a Black African playing and the places are dominated by Coloured and Asian players.

 

[Richard]

Rohan Kanhai was one of the leading batsmen in that competition, only very recently made First-Class.

 

[andruid]

Don't worry, you couldn't possibly match my idiocy on that front.

Ahh don't we all know how Richard gets once he is fixated to a certain viewpoint.

I think this thread is merely one expression of how where cricket is spreading/ or is played across social classes in a particular nation , batsmen of national level quality tend to be those who are exposed to and generally have all the necessary equipment or coaching. or are brought through institutions which can afford them a lot more hours practising with full and hight quality equipment whereas, in the institutions run by and for lower income groups the lower revenue means these schools, clubs and so forth have means that expensive individual equip,equipment eg. pads, bats and helmets are not available to absolutely everyone therefore less players get the sort of hours in the nets that would be enough for them to develop a technique good enough for top level cricket

 

[Chemosit]

I put it down to cost of equipment, after all one cannot expect to develop as a qualty batsman if one cannot even afford a quality bat.

One name for you: Steve Tikolo - honed his skills using a broken stump and a carved maize cob.

Interestingly that of his generation, most the best African players in Kenya developed as better off side players than leg side as the way the ground they used to play on in their estate was angled. Due to the space, they had to bowl only from one end and if the batsman hit the ball over the fences on the off side, the neighbours would give the ball back, but if they played balls over the fences on the leg side the balls were not returned.

 

[Chemosit]

This article does make me think further about how much ethnicity as opposed to affluence affects the way a cricketer develops. For example, I have long dreamed of cricket being introduced to the Maasai - I reckon with the natural height and the aggression of their tribe they would develop into fantastic fast bowlers. I also imagine they would be pretty cavalier batsmen.

Currently, most of the black Kenyans, both bowlers and batsmen, come from the Luo tribe. Some juniors are now beginning to come through from other tribes such as the Kikuyu. Similar to what several have said, it comes down to certain areas having a cricket culture and others not and growing the culture will probably be behind bringing through players from different ethnic backgrounds. I don't know enough about the different tribes in SA (or India for that matter) to comment on their situations with regard to this.

 

[wpdavid]

A note on Black African cricket history.

Under the old regime, non-White cricket was run by SACBOC.

SACBOC was formed in 1947 to bring together Indian, Coloured and African cricketers.

This is the first score sheet I found. A non-White Representitive game from 1975. SACBOC SA North vs SACBOC SA South

Interesting to see Rohan Kanhai playing. Also noteworthy that there is barely a Black African playing and the places are dominated by Coloured and Asian players.

Interesting stuff, espially Kanhai's participation. No wonder he tended not to take too much **** from anyone by the time he was captain of WI. Unfortunately, it'll probably be much harder to trace the history of non-white cricket back to the start of the 20th century, or even anything before WW2, to see if that was always the pattern. As others have suggested, socio-economic factors had probably played their part long before 1975.
The book(s) that ret mentioned would be well worth reading, imo.

 

[Top_Cat]

One name for you: Steve Tikolo - honed his skills using a broken stump and a carved maize cob.

Pointing out an exception doesn't invalidate the theory, though. Generally-speaking, it's pretty much on the mark.

 

[TT Boy]

A note on Black African cricket history.

Under the old regime, non-White cricket was run by SACBOC.

SACBOC was formed in 1947 to bring together Indian, Coloured and African cricketers.

This is the first score sheet I found. A non-White Representitive game from 1975. SACBOC SA North vs SACBOC SA South

Interesting to see Rohan Kanhai playing. Also noteworthy that there is barely a Black African playing and the places are dominated by Coloured and Asian players.

I am correct in suggesting that if one is living in a Bantustan/Homeland chances are they wouldn’t be able to participate in non-White South African cricket because they are no longer considered South African?

 

[TT Boy]

Interesting stuff, espially Kanhai's participation. No wonder he tended not to take too much **** from anyone by the time he was captain of WI. Unfortunately, it'll probably be much harder to trace the history of non-white cricket back to the start of the 20th century, or even anything before WW2, to see if that was always the pattern. As others have suggested, socio-economic factors had probably played their part long before 1975.
The book(s) that ret mentioned would be well worth reading, imo.

It’s not, there are now thankfully countless books which chronicle African participation in cricket - A participation which can be traced back as far to the mid-nineteenth century. Although, most of these texts have only emerged since Mbeki became President and South Africa witnessed its ‘Black Renaissance’. Most South African cricket books prior to this still preached the old apartheid rhetoric that Africans never played cricket or rugby and have no history of playing the game which is entirely faux. Places such as King William’s Town and their production line of African cricketers since readmission is a notable example of an area which always had and was able to hold onto its cricketing culture despite every attempt to rid them of such a passion.

If CSA originally put their money there instead of places such as Alexandra, Soweto, South Africa may have had a few more Ntini’s and Zondeki’s.

 

[Goughy]

If CSA originally put their money there instead of places such as Alexandra, Soweto, South Africa may have had a few more Ntini’s and Zondeki’s.

There is certainly a history of Black cricket in the Eastern Cape.

Regarding your above statement

Solomon Pango, President of the Alice Cricket Board (in the Eastern Cape), says: "An enormous amount of cricket goes on in this area. There is no need to go hunting for talent with development cricket in urban townships which have never played the game.

 

[TT Boy]

There is certainly a history of cricket in the Eastern Cape.

Regarding your above statement

Solomon Pango, President of the Alice Cricket Board (in the Eastern Cape), says: "An enormous amount of cricket goes on in this area. There is no need to go hunting for talent with development cricket in urban townships which have never played the game.

I can't comment on that for urban township could mean practically anywhere in the Eastern Cape and presumably Pango is right, there are places which Africans have never played the game before but conversely there are plenty of places in Eastern Province where they have. ANC and Eastern Province men such as Ngconde Balfour and Monde Zondeki’s late uncle, Steve Tshwete all grew up playing cricket (and rugby) for that was the ‘ingrained’ sport of choice in their township.