Where are the Black Batsmen?

[Protean]

Very interesting read. I have next to no knowledge about the technical aspects of cricket so that was really informative, answered my question very thoroughly too.

Was actually quite suprised when I turned on one of the U-19 WC games and saw SA had a black wicketkeeper, so unused to it, though I think he only played in some of the earlier games.

 

[andruid]

I put it down to cost of equipment, after all one cannot expect to develop as a qualty batsman if one cannot even afford a quality bat.

 

[Precambrian]

Afridi is an example of a batsman who turned into an above average bowler.

With all due respect to your right to make an opinion, ------>

He is a good 20-20 bowler perhaps.

Average/Mediocre ODI bowler (Refer the Indo-Pak 2007 ODI series summary for proof)

Nothing Test bowler

He remains the same batsman he debuted however.

 

[ret]

Firstly, Id rather you actually read the piece if you are going to make comments disagreeing with it

Secondly the situation is quite different to that of India. India has large numbers of the population playing cricket at a young age and wanting to be cricketers. It may just be street cricket or tennis ball cricket but it is important in batting for it to feel natural and a 2nd instinct to be developed. This familiarity with the sport from a young age exists in India but not Black South Africa. Technique isnt essentially added as a tiny boy, it is added later upon a foundation of being comfortable with the bat and hitting the ball. You make comparisons with India, as I said there are a number of reasons why this is different to India, however the Indian system is also hardly efficient at producing talent. There are a billion people in India and the system inefficiently produces talent below that of Australia with a pop of 18 million.

As for your final point about being able to come to bowling late. It happens. Over coaching of seam bowlers is a common theme in selectorial talks in modern day cricket.

Increasingly bowlers that are newer to the game and with a less forced and technical action are being looked for as they generally have greater potential, understand their own games better (as they worked it out for themselves) and bowl quicker.

what we can take from Ind's example is
1. even though it lacks gr8 coaching facilities it produces some gr8 cricketers
2. there is a cricket culture in Ind
3. inspite of having a cricketing culture, Ind talent pool is not comparable to say OZ's as OZ's hv better coaching/cricketing facilities

so what i would deduct from this is that if there were a positive cricketing culture in the Black South African community then they would hv produced some good cricketers, including batsmen, and overcome some of the limitations that they face

now the Q is why there isn't a positive cricket culture amongst the Black in RSA? And what can be done to establish such a culture amongst the Blacks? Do they need a Black icon player to motivate them to take cricket as a career option? .... Other thing I would like to know is how successful Blacks are in other sports in South Africa

When I look at other African teams like Kenya who hv produced some good Black batsmen like Steve Tikalo & Maurice Odumbe despite some limitations in that country, I wonder why no Black batsman has come through the South African ranks in that manner?


Lastly, I found this on the net

http://www.southafrica.info/ess_info/sa_glance/sports/features/africancricket.htm


below are some quotes from it

Drawing on rare 19th century African-language newspaper sources, family photo albums and extensive interviews, author Professor Andre Odendaal provides an intimate account of a rich cricketing culture that began with the establishment of the first black mission school cricket sides and clubs in the 1850s.

Odendaal demonstrates, through colourful stories and vivid photographs, that the game has been played with passion and commitment by black South Africans in inter-town tournaments, village games and national bodies for well over 100 years in a parallel, but largely hidden, tradition to that of their white counterparts.

In his foreword to the 370-page coffee-table book, former President Nelson Mandela writes: "During the apartheid era, black people were deliberately erased from history, and their experiences were negated. Now, as we enjoy the benefits of a hard-fought democracy, it is important to correct these exclusions. This book, focusing on one small aspect of our national life, shows how big they have been."

That is when he came across an Imvo editorial arguing that white South Africans needed to realise that blacks were "rough diamonds" that could become as polished as anybody else in playing cricket, and in all other aspects of life, if given the chance.

Receiving the first copy of the book from UCB CEO Gerald Majola this week, Sport and Recreation Minister Ngconde Balfour said: "Despite the major strides made by the game of cricket, there remained a vacuum of untold stories - until now ... The book lays to rest the myths that blacks have no real culture or tradition of cricket and rugby."

Balfour said the book captured the glory, the struggles and the heartache of the country's unheralded black cricketers.

"It is an inspiring story that will both enthrall and inform. In a real sense, it restores and cements the dignity and pride of generations of cricketers who were denied the opportunity to play the game they loved in circumstances that others took for granted."

 

[ret]

You are so not getting it.

let's take the case

Premise1: Initiator - Bowler [as he bowls and sets the ball in motion]
Premise 2: Reactor - Batsman [as he reacts to the bowler]
Deduction, acccording to you [based on the theory you proposed] - Batsman is in a tougher position

Initiator - Batsman [as he hits the ball and sets the ball in motion]
Reactor - Fielder [as he reacts to the batsman]
Deduction - Fielder is in a tougher position

So if the theory is NOT subjective then it should hold true in the above case .... If not then it's irrelevant to the discussion like I mentioned b4

 

[Goughy]

what we can take from Ind's example is
1. even though it lacks gr8 coaching facilities it produces some gr8 cricketers
2. there is a cricket culture in Ind
3. inspite of having a cricketing culture, Ind talent pool is not comparable to say OZ's as OZ's hv better coaching/cricketing facilities

so what i would deduct from this is that if there were a positive cricketing culture in the Black South African community then they would hv produced some good cricketers, including batsmen, and overcome some of the limitations that they face

now the Q is why there isn't a positive cricket culture amongst the Black in RSA? And what can be done to establish such a culture amongst the Blacks? Do they need a Black icon player to motivate them to take cricket as a career option? .... Other thing I would like to know is how successful Blacks are in other sports in South Africa

When I look at other African teams like Kenya who hv produced some good Black batsmen like Steve Tikalo & Maurice Odumbe despite some limitations in that country, I wonder why no Black batsman has come through the South African ranks in that manner?


Lastly, I found this on the net

http://www.southafrica.info/ess_info/sa_glance/sports/features/africancricket.htm


below are some quotes from it

Great, now let me ask you a question.

Have you actually invested time and effort in Black African cricket or are you making an argument based on what you read in a book once?

 

[ret]

Great, now let me ask you a question.

Have you actually invested time and effort in Black African cricket or are you making an argument based on what you read in a book once?

I haven't invested time in Black African cricket but I m making my comments based on what I hv read .... in the same way, i read ur article

If the point that u r making is that I m making comments on what i read once then I would ask the reason for posting ur article here coz most ppl are like me here. i.e. hv not invested time in Black African cricket, and u r asking for a discussion on what we rad in that article [I doubt if many here would hv invested time on this issue]

Although, I skimmed through ur article, i felt it was pretty good and made me think abt that issue and thats the reason why I m posting here and giving you my 2 cents on the issue

 

[andruid]

When I look at other African teams like Kenya who hv produced some good Black batsmen like Steve Tikalo & Maurice Odumbe despite some limitations in that country, I wonder why no Black batsman has come through the South African ranks in that manner?

Legend has it Steve Tikolo learnt his technique by imitating the Indian kids who lived over the fence from where he grew up. But that's just legend

 

[wpdavid]

Firstly thanks to Goughy for writing the piece. It's a touchy old subject, and he deserves credit for his contribution to the subject. Admittedly from where I'm sat, some of the cultural generalisations sound extreme, but I haven't been there, so I can't argue with any sort of authority. It's a shame CW doesn't (afaiaw) have any black SA members who could comment into those issues.

Beyond that, the view that it may take a generation to turn things around may well be true, but that shouldn't stop people trying. Similar comments could have been made about the WI cricket team and Brazilian football team in the first half of the 20th century, and we all know what followed.

Finally, I hope someone will do justice to the piece that ret posted regarding the history of black cricket in SA. That wasn't the first I had read about it - IIRC I think the issue was also raised in Peter Oborne's book about D'Oliveira, or may be Mike Marqsee's 'Anyone But England' - but I wouldn't claim to be any sort of expert. However, clearly there is a different view on the matter, and it would be a shame if it was simply dismissed because it doesn't suit current thinking.

 

[Goughy]

Admittedly from where I'm sat, some of the cultural generalisations sound extreme,

Really such as what? No more extreme than commenting that Basketball being a minority sport in England or Rugby League being more popular in the North.

 

[Redbacks]

Gibbs?

Maybe youngsters just prefer to play football

 

[Richard]

Herschelle Gibbs is not Black African. I'd have thought that was fairly obvious TBH.

 

[wpdavid]

Really such as what? No more extreme than commenting that Basketball being a minority sport in England or Rugby League being more popular in the North.

That is hardly the same as attributing certain attitudes or character-generalisations to various people groups.

 

[wpdavid]

Herschelle Gibbs is not Black African. I'd have thought that was fairly obvious TBH.

I had previously assumed that Prince is, but I'll stand to be corrected on that one.

 

[Goughy]

That is hardly the same as attributing certain attitudes or character-generalisations to various people groups.

Such as?

I had previously assumed that Prince is, but I'll stand to be corrected on that one.

Nah, Coloured

Just point out, and this list is by no means completely exact.

These are the non-White players to have debuted sine 1995 in Test or ODIs.

Coloured (9% of SA Pop)

37 PR Adams South Africa v England at Cape Town, 1995/96
42 HH Gibbs Kenya v South Africa at Nairobi (Gym), 1996/97
49 R Telemachus South Africa v Pakistan at Durban, 1997/98
53 HS Williams South Africa v West Indies at East London, 1998/99
64 JL Ontong West Indies v South Africa at Kingston, 2000/01
67 CK Langeveldt South Africa v Kenya at Kimberley, 2001/02
70 RJ Peterson India v South Africa at Colombo (RPS), 2002/03
72 AG Prince South Africa v Bangladesh at Kimberley, 2002/03
7 JP Duminy Sri Lanka v South Africa at Colombo (RPS), 2004
81 GJP Kruger Australia v South Africa at Brisbane, 2005/06
84 LL Bosman South Africa v Zimbabwe at Bloemfontein, 2006/07
85 AN Petersen South Africa v Zimbabwe at East London, 2006/07
86 VD Philander Ireland v South Africa at Belfast, 2007


Black African (80% of SA Pop)

47 M Ntini New Zealand v South Africa at Perth, 1997/98
87 T Tshabalala Ireland v South Africa at Belfast, 2007
73 M Zondeki South Africa v Sri Lanka at Bloemfontein, 2002/03
55 PV Mpitsang South Africa v West Indies at Bloemfontein, 1998/99
294 TL Tsolekile India v South Africa at Kanpur, 2004/05
278 M Ngam South Africa v New Zealand at Johannesburg, 2000/01

Asian and unknown Background
90 HM Amla Bangladesh v South Africa at Chittagong (CDS), 2007/08
62 S Abrahams South Africa v New Zealand at Cape Town, 2000/01
88 GH Bodi Zimbabwe v South Africa at Bulawayo, 2007

There has always been strong cricketing history in certain parts of the Country in the Coloured Communities. There hasn't been with Black African involvement

 

[Chubb]

Zimbabwe have obviously brought through several black batsmen, though it took a while for the first one to come through after test status- Trevor Madondo, who tragically died of cerebral malaria. Before him, the black players were the bowlers, Olonga, Mbangwa and Nkala three of them.

Hamilton Masakadza was the first black African to score a test match ton, and I'll use him and his three friends Tatenda Taibu, Stuart Matsikenyeri and Vusi Sibanda as an example of how Zimbabwe started to bring through black batting talent.

Hamilton was introduced to the game in his fifth year of primary when Stephen Magongo, a ZCU coach, visited his school in the Harare suburb of Highfield to introduce the class to cricket. He was captivated from the start, and immediately played his first games for the school team. After two years of playing for Mashonaland Schools, Magongo arranged a scholarship to Churchill High School in Harare, alongside Taibu, Sibanda and Matsikenyeri, who had also come through a similar route. All four of them became fixtures in the school side and their various talents were developed by ZC, who kept a close eye on them. Masakadza said he always considered himself a batting allrounder, and he probably still does, but that is very similar to many white Zimbabwean cricketers so you can't hold that against him.

The scholarship system worked because it involved the identification of talent at a young age following the exposure of a large number of black children to cricket. These talents were then nurtured using Zimbabwe's traditional strength in school sports, and given access to the best coaches in Zimbabwe, like Bill Flower. It gave these boys access to educational opportunities they could never have enjoyed without cricket (Hamilton now has a university degree). I honestly believe it was an example of the ZCU getting something right.

 

[Richard]

It's only in the post-Bvute World that ZC(U) have been a piss-poor organisation though isn't it? Or were they poor before then too?

 

[Chubb]

I think they did a very good job of bringing the black population into cricket following 1992. They also used the expertise of men like Bill Flower and Stephen Magongo very well. In addition, they followed this up by introducing decent structures for development, especially the CFX Academy. . But the money for that was raised by Dave Houghton. ZC didn't have enough money to actually build it. They also didn't do the best of jobs in promoting the first-class game- however it is debatable how much they actually could have done to strengthen that competition.

You are right in that it only became corrupt and racist after the appointment of Ozias Bvute, but even a decently-run ZCU would have struggled post-2001 with what has happened to Zimbabwe. that's the sad thing about it, because the potential was there to develop decent little system in Zimbabwe which could have seen (in my liberal pipe-dream) a successful multi-racial side, with black players in the side as batsmen and bowlers, not being pigeonholed. What is incredible is that Zim still have decent young cricketers, the fruits of that system, as the core of the side.

 

[jeevan]

Good article. There may be more of an analogy to the situation in India than not.

Race is, unlike SA, not an equation. But one can consider highly urban / small town, rural to be a 'privilege divide". So when looks at the top batsmen and top bowlers (esp pace bowlers), there is a similar pattern.

Mumbai (Tendulkar, Jaffer, Rohit Sharma), Delhi (Sehwag,Gambhir,Chopra, couple others more marginal), are over represented. As are other batsmen (Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly) from some metropolis. Yuvraj's father was a cricketer too. While Jaffer, Rohit Sharma have come from humble backgrounds, they've been a few mile away from cricketing royalty (who are atleast somewhat meritocratic). Of Course Mumbai has a fabulous batting lineage starting from Vijay Merchant (including Manjrekar, Umrigar,Sardesai,Gavaskar,Vengsarkar, Patil, Manjrekar in the past). and some real royalty were batsmen as well (Ranjitsinhji, Dulepsinhji, Pataudi Sr & Jr).

Current exceptions to this metro origin are few: Dhoni, and then on the finges Kaif & Raina. (Uthappa, I think is close enough to Bangalore, perhaps not).

Compare it to the current crop of pace bowlers: With the exception of Irfan Pathan (from Baroda - a metropolis in cricketing terms), Agarkar (Mumbai), Ishant Sharma (Delhi, though modest background) - I think everyone else mostly originates from the fringes.

Munaf Patel - from the real rural India
Sreesanth - Kerala, a cricket backwaters (whose other cricketing son - Tinu Yohanan is also a fast bowler).
Zaheer Khan - Aurangabad (plays for Bombay but that is quite recent)
RP Singh - some small town in UP,
Praveen Kumar - Meerut, mid size town in UP.
Pankaj Singh : Rajasthan

While the division of privilege is not as striking, and nor are the results, as SA. It bears out the articles main point. Which I take to be:

Raw ungroomed talent, neglected early, can do well as bowlers.
Takes a certain amount of bringing up (as the ZC examples do not relate strictly to birth) : to create good batsmen with solid technique.

 

[Goughy]

Though of course there are differences, it is interesting that a number of the factors appear to be similar in India.