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Thread: Do England Miss The Pace Of Welsh Wizard Simon Jones ?

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    U19 Debutant The Masterplan's Avatar
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    Do England Miss The Pace Of Welsh Wizard Simon Jones ?

    Personally I Think He Was Englands Answer To The Other Major Quickies In World Cricket... i.e. Brett lee, Shane Bond, Shoaib Ahktar, Fidel Edwards Etc... I Think England Would Be Doing Well If He Hadn't Have Been Injured...

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    International Coach PhoenixFire's Avatar
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    Had one very good series, but before was just an average bowler. I seriosuly don't think he would have made all that much difference to our results after he got injured, should he have come back.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Truth is, we'll never know. Had Jones stayed fit he might have kicked-on from his 2 sensational performances in the first-innings' at Old Trafford and Trent Bridge in 2005, or he might have gone back to being the relatively anodyne bowler he mostly (though not exclusively) had been before then.

    One thing's for sure - him not being injured would've been preferable to him being injured. But to presume he alone could have made a massive difference, well, TBH I don't think so.

    I highly, highly doubt he could ever have been as good as Bond or Shoaib Akhtar, or maybe even Brett Lee, BTW. Though being better than Fidel Edwards is something any half-decent bowler should aspire to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Truth is, we'll never know. Had Jones stayed fit he might have kicked-on from his 2 sensational performances in the first-innings' at Old Trafford and Trent Bridge in 2005, or he might have gone back to being the relatively anodyne bowler he mostly (though not exclusively) had been before then.

    One thing's for sure - him not being injured would've been preferable to him being injured. But to presume he alone could have made a massive difference, well, TBH I don't think so.

    I highly, highly doubt he could ever have been as good as Bond or Shoaib Akhtar, or maybe even Brett Lee, BTW. Though being better than Fidel Edwards is something any half-decent bowler should aspire to.
    I think Brett Lee at the moment is as good as Bond and Akhtar have ever been, although I prefer watching the latter, espescially Shaoib.


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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    The short answer is yes. It's true he was only just beginning to show what he could do when he fell foul of the injuries that have dogged him thorughout his career, but when one considers the alternatives that have been tried since, there's no doubt in my mind he would have out-performed any.

    I think he's destined to be remembered as one of those poor souls who had the ability to bowl quickly (not out-and-out fast, but briskly enough) but whose body could not take the considerable burden of doing so.

    Let's hope his change of county brings a change of fortune.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James_W View Post
    I think Brett Lee at the moment is as good as Bond and Akhtar have ever been, although I prefer watching the latter, espescially Shaoib.
    Lee last season was as good as they've ever been. But had Shoaib and Bond had continued fitness, their careers would almost certainly by now be greater than anything Lee would ever be able to achieve this late in his career.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    I think he's destined to be remembered as one of those poor souls who had the ability to bowl quickly (not out-and-out fast, but briskly enough) but whose body could not take the considerable burden of doing so.
    Interestingly, how many of his injuries can be put down to the strain of bowling? I'm no joints\biomechanical expert, obv, but certainly the first major one (the cruciate-ligament) was nothing to do with. The problems since have concerned the other knee and an ankle. This could be either yes or no, of course.

    It's certainly less obvious than in those cases which involve back and shoulder injuries.
    Let's hope his change of county brings a change of fortune.
    Sadly, there's no reason it should. His move to Worcestershire currently has a rather forlorn look about it.

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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Interestingly, how many of his injuries can be put down to the strain of bowling? I'm no joints\biomechanical expert, obv, but certainly the first major one (the cruciate-ligament) was nothing to do with. The problems since have concerned the other knee and an ankle. This could be either yes or no, of course.

    It's certainly less obvious than in those cases which involve back and shoulder injuries.

    Sadly, there's no reason it should. His move to Worcestershire currently has a rather forlorn look about it.
    After his debut his missed the rest of the summer with a back injury (stress-fracture? Can't remember) which is a typical quick's injury & obviously the bone spur in his ankle was as well.

    &, yep, I'm also inclined to believe Jonah is spent as an international force, but hope springs eternal & all that.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    It was a side-strain that stopped him in 2002. Didn't mention that because it wasn't - quite - as serious as the other 4(!) injuries he's had. It is, however, clearly a bowling-related injury, but he's certainly far from unique in suffering one.

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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    It was a side-strain that stopped him in 2002. Didn't mention that because it wasn't - quite - as serious as the other 4(!) injuries he's had. It is, however, clearly a bowling-related injury, but he's certainly far from unique in suffering one.
    Yeah, you're right actually, just Googled it (found this FTR). Still got the back & (if he takes after his old man) the elbow to look forward to then...

    Terrible shame anyway.

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    International Captain Woodster's Avatar
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    I think England have missed a fit and firing Simon Jones, who had the happy knack of picking up important wickets. When he first arrived on the scene, Jones was out and out fast, and perhaps if he could have continued without injury (not too likely with the strain of his action) would have been up there with the Lee's, Akhtar's etc for quickest on the planet.

    However, even when he returned from numerous injuries he proved there was more to his game than sheer pace. Yes he was still nippy, but his ability to move the ball, and pick up wickets indicated to me he would still have been a vital part of the side had his incessant injuries ceased.

    Loved his attitude also, always tried his hardest and was never shy in confronting the opposition.

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    International Vice-Captain open365's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixFire View Post
    Had one very good series, but before was just an average bowler. I seriosuly don't think he would have made all that much difference to our results after he got injured, should he have come back.
    I admit that he may have been an average bowler before the ashes, but i really doubt that if uninjured he'd have stooped to the abysmal levels that our bowling attack currently resides at.

    Personaly i think he could have been a very very special bowler if he stayed fit for long enough, though this is probably just misty eyed nostalgia from 05.

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    U19 Debutant The Masterplan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodster View Post
    Loved his attitude also, always tried his hardest and was never shy in confronting the opposition.
    I agree... whenever he got a wicket he just loved it.. Mr Cool ... But now Harmison and Hoggard have been axed none of the 5 ashes bowlers are left But i think although someone like Mahmood had a bad test start i the team he can bowl relatively quick, is it me or are there similarities in Mahmood and Jones' bowling actions ? i think so anyway...

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodster View Post
    I think England have missed a fit and firing Simon Jones, who had the happy knack of picking up important wickets. When he first arrived on the scene, Jones was out and out fast, and perhaps if he could have continued without injury (not too likely with the strain of his action) would have been up there with the Lee's, Akhtar's etc for quickest on the planet.

    However, even when he returned from numerous injuries he proved there was more to his game than sheer pace. Yes he was still nippy, but his ability to move the ball, and pick up wickets indicated to me he would still have been a vital part of the side had his incessant injuries ceased.

    Loved his attitude also, always tried his hardest and was never shy in confronting the opposition.
    Quote Originally Posted by open365 View Post
    I admit that he may have been an average bowler before the ashes, but i really doubt that if uninjured he'd have stooped to the abysmal levels that our bowling attack currently resides at.

    Personaly i think he could have been a very very special bowler if he stayed fit for long enough, though this is probably just misty eyed nostalgia from 05.
    There's no doubt Jones possessed rare attributes, his skills with reverse-swing are well-documented, his skills with the conventional variety far less so but there were signs they could be almost as good.

    The thing to remember is that Jones' reverse-swing, while not revealed to the wider audience until that spell at Brendon McCullum early in summer 2004, were first learned in the winter of 2001\02, before the cruciate-ligament injury.

    I've personally always doubted he was able to bowl quite as quick as someone like Shoaib Akhtar - the fastest I've ever seen him was 92mph, same speed as Darren Gough - but he was cerainly quick enough to fall into the "fast" category.

    Jones' problem, though, was always the lack of accuracy and the inevitable quid-quo-pros that comes with being a swing-bowler, in being completely dependant on a good ball and the outfield being in the right condition. A poor-quality cricket-ball, or a too-lush\too-dry outfield, will scupper all, and without swing (which did happen sometimes) Jones was usually cannon-fodder.

    It remained to be seen whether he could maintain the magical "a wicket could be coming every ball" atmosphere he had in the Third and Fourth Tests in 2005. Injury, of course, has put paid to our chances of ever knowing. Even if, by some miracle, he does play regular cricket again, we'll never know how much impact the massive layoff has had.

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    International Captain Woodster's Avatar
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    Yes there are similarities in their action, I agree. While there may not be many supporters of Saj Mahmood playing for England again, I still harbour hopes of his recall, he is one genuine pace bowler we have.

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