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Do England Miss The Pace Of Welsh Wizard Simon Jones ?

The Masterplan

U19 Debutant
Personally I Think He Was Englands Answer To The Other Major Quickies In World Cricket... i.e. Brett lee, Shane Bond, Shoaib Ahktar, Fidel Edwards Etc... I Think England Would Be Doing Well If He Hadn't Have Been Injured...
 

PhoenixFire

International Coach
Had one very good series, but before was just an average bowler. I seriosuly don't think he would have made all that much difference to our results after he got injured, should he have come back.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Truth is, we'll never know. Had Jones stayed fit he might have kicked-on from his 2 sensational performances in the first-innings' at Old Trafford and Trent Bridge in 2005, or he might have gone back to being the relatively anodyne bowler he mostly (though not exclusively) had been before then.

One thing's for sure - him not being injured would've been preferable to him being injured. But to presume he alone could have made a massive difference, well, TBH I don't think so.

I highly, highly doubt he could ever have been as good as Bond or Shoaib Akhtar, or maybe even Brett Lee, BTW. Though being better than Fidel Edwards is something any half-decent bowler should aspire to.
 

James_W

U19 Vice-Captain
Truth is, we'll never know. Had Jones stayed fit he might have kicked-on from his 2 sensational performances in the first-innings' at Old Trafford and Trent Bridge in 2005, or he might have gone back to being the relatively anodyne bowler he mostly (though not exclusively) had been before then.

One thing's for sure - him not being injured would've been preferable to him being injured. But to presume he alone could have made a massive difference, well, TBH I don't think so.

I highly, highly doubt he could ever have been as good as Bond or Shoaib Akhtar, or maybe even Brett Lee, BTW. Though being better than Fidel Edwards is something any half-decent bowler should aspire to.
I think Brett Lee at the moment is as good as Bond and Akhtar have ever been, although I prefer watching the latter, espescially Shaoib.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
The short answer is yes. It's true he was only just beginning to show what he could do when he fell foul of the injuries that have dogged him thorughout his career, but when one considers the alternatives that have been tried since, there's no doubt in my mind he would have out-performed any.

I think he's destined to be remembered as one of those poor souls who had the ability to bowl quickly (not out-and-out fast, but briskly enough) but whose body could not take the considerable burden of doing so.

Let's hope his change of county brings a change of fortune.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I think Brett Lee at the moment is as good as Bond and Akhtar have ever been, although I prefer watching the latter, espescially Shaoib.
Lee last season was as good as they've ever been. But had Shoaib and Bond had continued fitness, their careers would almost certainly by now be greater than anything Lee would ever be able to achieve this late in his career.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I think he's destined to be remembered as one of those poor souls who had the ability to bowl quickly (not out-and-out fast, but briskly enough) but whose body could not take the considerable burden of doing so.
Interestingly, how many of his injuries can be put down to the strain of bowling? I'm no joints\biomechanical expert, obv, but certainly the first major one (the cruciate-ligament) was nothing to do with. The problems since have concerned the other knee and an ankle. This could be either yes or no, of course.

It's certainly less obvious than in those cases which involve back and shoulder injuries.
Let's hope his change of county brings a change of fortune.
Sadly, there's no reason it should. His move to Worcestershire currently has a rather forlorn look about it.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Interestingly, how many of his injuries can be put down to the strain of bowling? I'm no joints\biomechanical expert, obv, but certainly the first major one (the cruciate-ligament) was nothing to do with. The problems since have concerned the other knee and an ankle. This could be either yes or no, of course.

It's certainly less obvious than in those cases which involve back and shoulder injuries.

Sadly, there's no reason it should. His move to Worcestershire currently has a rather forlorn look about it.
After his debut his missed the rest of the summer with a back injury (stress-fracture? Can't remember) which is a typical quick's injury & obviously the bone spur in his ankle was as well.

&, yep, I'm also inclined to believe Jonah is spent as an international force, but hope springs eternal & all that.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
It was a side-strain that stopped him in 2002. Didn't mention that because it wasn't - quite - as serious as the other 4(!) injuries he's had. It is, however, clearly a bowling-related injury, but he's certainly far from unique in suffering one.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
It was a side-strain that stopped him in 2002. Didn't mention that because it wasn't - quite - as serious as the other 4(!) injuries he's had. It is, however, clearly a bowling-related injury, but he's certainly far from unique in suffering one.
Yeah, you're right actually, just Googled it (found this FTR). Still got the back & (if he takes after his old man) the elbow to look forward to then...

Terrible shame anyway.
 

Woodster

International Captain
I think England have missed a fit and firing Simon Jones, who had the happy knack of picking up important wickets. When he first arrived on the scene, Jones was out and out fast, and perhaps if he could have continued without injury (not too likely with the strain of his action) would have been up there with the Lee's, Akhtar's etc for quickest on the planet.

However, even when he returned from numerous injuries he proved there was more to his game than sheer pace. Yes he was still nippy, but his ability to move the ball, and pick up wickets indicated to me he would still have been a vital part of the side had his incessant injuries ceased.

Loved his attitude also, always tried his hardest and was never shy in confronting the opposition.
 

open365

International Vice-Captain
Had one very good series, but before was just an average bowler. I seriosuly don't think he would have made all that much difference to our results after he got injured, should he have come back.
I admit that he may have been an average bowler before the ashes, but i really doubt that if uninjured he'd have stooped to the abysmal levels that our bowling attack currently resides at.

Personaly i think he could have been a very very special bowler if he stayed fit for long enough, though this is probably just misty eyed nostalgia from 05.
 

The Masterplan

U19 Debutant
Loved his attitude also, always tried his hardest and was never shy in confronting the opposition.
I agree... whenever he got a wicket he just loved it.. Mr Cool :mellow: ... But now Harmison and Hoggard have been axed none of the 5 ashes bowlers are left :@ But i think although someone like Mahmood had a bad test start i the team he can bowl relatively quick, is it me or are there similarities in Mahmood and Jones' bowling actions ? i think so anyway...
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I think England have missed a fit and firing Simon Jones, who had the happy knack of picking up important wickets. When he first arrived on the scene, Jones was out and out fast, and perhaps if he could have continued without injury (not too likely with the strain of his action) would have been up there with the Lee's, Akhtar's etc for quickest on the planet.

However, even when he returned from numerous injuries he proved there was more to his game than sheer pace. Yes he was still nippy, but his ability to move the ball, and pick up wickets indicated to me he would still have been a vital part of the side had his incessant injuries ceased.

Loved his attitude also, always tried his hardest and was never shy in confronting the opposition.
I admit that he may have been an average bowler before the ashes, but i really doubt that if uninjured he'd have stooped to the abysmal levels that our bowling attack currently resides at.

Personaly i think he could have been a very very special bowler if he stayed fit for long enough, though this is probably just misty eyed nostalgia from 05.
There's no doubt Jones possessed rare attributes, his skills with reverse-swing are well-documented, his skills with the conventional variety far less so but there were signs they could be almost as good.

The thing to remember is that Jones' reverse-swing, while not revealed to the wider audience until that spell at Brendon McCullum early in summer 2004, were first learned in the winter of 2001\02, before the cruciate-ligament injury.

I've personally always doubted he was able to bowl quite as quick as someone like Shoaib Akhtar - the fastest I've ever seen him was 92mph, same speed as Darren Gough - but he was cerainly quick enough to fall into the "fast" category.

Jones' problem, though, was always the lack of accuracy and the inevitable quid-quo-pros that comes with being a swing-bowler, in being completely dependant on a good ball and the outfield being in the right condition. A poor-quality cricket-ball, or a too-lush\too-dry outfield, will scupper all, and without swing (which did happen sometimes) Jones was usually cannon-fodder.

It remained to be seen whether he could maintain the magical "a wicket could be coming every ball" atmosphere he had in the Third and Fourth Tests in 2005. Injury, of course, has put paid to our chances of ever knowing. Even if, by some miracle, he does play regular cricket again, we'll never know how much impact the massive layoff has had.
 

Woodster

International Captain
Yes there are similarities in their action, I agree. While there may not be many supporters of Saj Mahmood playing for England again, I still harbour hopes of his recall, he is one genuine pace bowler we have.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I agree... whenever he got a wicket he just loved it.. Mr Cool :mellow: ... But now Harmison and Hoggard have been axed none of the 5 ashes bowlers are left :@ But i think although someone like Mahmood had a bad test start i the team he can bowl relatively quick, is it me or are there similarities in Mahmood and Jones' bowling actions ? i think so anyway...
Mahmood can bowl reverse-swing (a bit) and that's about all he and Jones have in common. Mahmood, however, is a terrible bowler - easily the worst I've ever seen play Test-cricket for England, though Plunkett runs him fairly close, and I'm too young to remember the likes of Victor Marks, John Childs and Tony Pigott (though I doubt they were quite that bad).

Mahmood simply never gives the impression of having a clue where the ball is going. He is not even close to being a county-standard bowler, never mind Test. How he ever got near Test-cricket is one of life's great mysteries.
 

open365

International Vice-Captain
Yes there are similarities in their action, I agree. While there may not be many supporters of Saj Mahmood playing for England again, I still harbour hopes of his recall, he is one genuine pace bowler we have.
Are you nuts?
 

Woodster

International Captain
Mahmood can bowl reverse-swing (a bit) and that's about all he and Jones have in common. Mahmood, however, is a terrible bowler - easily the worst I've ever seen play Test-cricket for England, though Plunkett runs him fairly close, and I'm too young to remember the likes of Victor Marks, John Childs and Tony Pigott (though I doubt they were quite that bad).

Mahmood simply never gives the impression of having a clue where the ball is going. He is not even close to being a county-standard bowler, never mind Test. How he ever got near Test-cricket is one of life's great mysteries.
Harsh. Exceptionally harsh is the "not even close to being a county-standard bowler"!

Admittedly his accuracy is his main stumbling block and quite an important one at that. However, I hope he is not made, as so many England quicks are, into a fast-medium pace bowler that is a touch more accurate. Let him go, let him rip, ok he may go for a few runs, but at his pace, he is equally as likely to pick up a wicket.

May be a risk in a four man attack, the cushion of Flintoff back in the side may ease one or two fears concerning consistency.
 

The Masterplan

U19 Debutant
I know a few of you are slating Saj Mahmood... but as a bowler who can touch 90 mph surely he poses some threat... but what made me laugh the other day was when Paul Collingwood was clocking speeds higher than Hoggard and Harmison in the test against New Zealand... i dont see Broad being able to do much either....
 

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