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Not Happy Jan

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
You from Grahamstown Rodders? Ever encounted my namesake Mr Hingston there?

(Presuming, this is, that Grahamstown and Grahamstad are two nearby places :ph34r: As I naturally have without even looking)
 
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Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Hahahahaha, that's just plain evil :laugh:
Never heard of it before?!

'T'caused quite a furore, that one... and if it'd been someone other than a Bangladeshi (like... Harbhajan Singh for instance) it'd probably have caused even more.
 

Chemosit

First Class Debutant
I will open my heart on a number of things I am/was upset about in Kenyan cricket

1. The scandal behind the misappropriation of the prize money from the 2003 World Cup among other funds
2. the near destruction of domestic cricket by the hard headedness of the parties involved in the player salary dispues through from 2003-2005?
3. Morris Odumbe's dealings with bookies.
4. The T20 World Cup performances.
Agree with the first 3. I would however go further with how cricket was handled by the KCA in 2003. No effort was made to ride the not inconsiderable wave of public interest in the game after Kenya's performance in the World Cup. It was all about how certain individuals could line their own pockets, very nearly causing the collapse of the game in what should have been a boom year.

A couple of my own:
1. The failure of the authorities to spread the game to the majority of the population. Very little has been done to really attempt this and as a result growth has been much slower that it could be.
2. Racism. Too many clubs are based on religious affiliation/ethic background. There are as yet NO clubs that cater for the majority African population. As a result, many locals see the game as 'Indian' and so maintain their disinterest. Has been known to affect selection at national level as well. A problem that needs to be seriously addressed from all angles.
3. The Kenyan press on cricket. 90% have no idea when reporting about the game itself and sell themselves to the highest bidder when writing about the politics of the game.
4. Until the Elite Leagues, the lack of regular cricket between the top players. there is still not enough to begin to bridge the gap to the next level up.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
1. Premature loss of Astle.
2. The Bond incident.
3. Our coach.
4. Our selectors.
5. Mistreatment of players such as Vincent, Marshall and Sinclair.
6. The loss of Heath Davies.
7. Our at the drop of a hat fear the worst media.
8. Underplaying of Jeeves.
9. Perennial underdog tag.
10. Being for the greater part rubbish at Tests due to a lack of commitment in the batting.
And finally...

11. The loss of Mills hair.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Agree with the first 3. I would however go further with how cricket was handled by the KCA in 2003. No effort was made to ride the not inconsiderable wave of public interest in the game after Kenya's performance in the World Cup. It was all about how certain individuals could line their own pockets, very nearly causing the collapse of the game in what should have been a boom year.

A couple of my own:
1. The failure of the authorities to spread the game to the majority of the population. Very little has been done to really attempt this and as a result growth has been much slower that it could be.
2. Racism. Too many clubs are based on religious affiliation/ethic background. There are as yet NO clubs that cater for the majority African population. As a result, many locals see the game as 'Indian' and so maintain their disinterest. Has been known to affect selection at national level as well. A problem that needs to be seriously addressed from all angles.
3. The Kenyan press on cricket. 90% have no idea when reporting about the game itself and sell themselves to the highest bidder when writing about the politics of the game.
4. Until the Elite Leagues, the lack of regular cricket between the top players. there is still not enough to begin to bridge the gap to the next level up.
Something I've thought before... and something I'm sure you might have answered before...

Do you actually have any non-cricketing ties to Kenya? I seem to recall your name's Nick, which, without wanting to assume too much, might suggest not. Are you of Kenyan background and living in Australia? Or are you just like George and Chubb and have taken a shine to a "small" cricketing country?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
1. Premature loss of Astle.
Premature? Think it was if anything a little belated myself, TBH.
2. The Bond incident.
TBH, while unsatisfactorily handled, I think Bond would've been gone before long anyway. Certainly he was in any case planning to retire from Tests.
3. Our coach.
Agreed, but look at the complaints levelled at John Buchanan by many Australians and you'll see that lack of success is not a prerequistite for questionable coaches.
4. Our selectors.
No worse, IMO, than any others really.
5. Mistreatment of players such as Vincent, Marshall and Sinclair.
Sinclair and Vincent I'll give you, but Marshall??!!
6. The loss of Heath Davies.
You'd think if you were so concerned you might spell his name properly. :p
7. Our at the drop of a hat fear the worst media.
They seem bad, but believe me ours can be horrible too, as I hope I've conveyed in the tour thread.
8. Underplaying of Jeeves.
Pah, fingerspinner. Granted Hitchcock and O'Brien playing ahead of him recently was odd TSTL tho.
9. Perennial underdog tag.
Agreed.
10. Being for the greater part rubbish at Tests due to a lack of commitment in the batting.
Hate to say it, but there are lack of ability issues there to boot.
And finally...

11. The loss of Mills hair.
Jeys, some people make a fuss about anything...














Sorry, couldn't resist really. :p
 

Chemosit

First Class Debutant
Something I've thought before... and something I'm sure you might have answered before...

Do you actually have any non-cricketing ties to Kenya? I seem to recall your name's Nick, which, without wanting to assume too much, might suggest not. Are you of Kenyan background and living in Australia? Or are you just like George and Chubb and have taken a shine to a "small" cricketing country?
Born and bred, though I am of anglo-saxon(ish) heritage. Mum's family moved to Kenya in late 1800s. I'm 3rd generation born in Kenya. Despite having been eligible for aussie citizenship for the past 3 years or so, I still fiercely retain my Kenya passport despite the difficulties it brings. If you lived anywhere within 5 suburbs, you would hear me yelling at the TV during the Olympics/World Athletics Champs which is the only time I ever get to see Kenyan sport on TV. hope that answers the question :)
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Yeah, aussome. You have my sympathy for the lack of TV coverage of your homeland's sport BTW. :down:
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Premature? Think it was if anything a little belated myself, TBH.
Had at least the WC still in him, why a little more experience in our batting may have helped us get over Sri Lanka in the semi final.
TBH, while unsatisfactorily handled, I think Bond would've been gone before long anyway. Certainly he was in any case planning to retire from Tests.
Don't care if he never played for us again due to injury, to abandon him and fall into the BCCI's lap was despicable. The money hungriness for all of this is disgusting, what ever happened to the CRICKET? This man gave us more Test wins than our side has known for years and he looks to take care of himself and we hang him out to dry, I had hoped our board would have been man enough to take a stand. But money talks...

Agreed, but look at the complaints levelled at John Buchanan by many Australians and you'll see that lack of success is not a prerequistite for questionable coaches.
His twins project, his favourite players, his disliked players. That whole psyche crap Astle talked about after his retirement. How is this man still in charge of the team?

No worse, IMO, than any others really.
Bastards in general.

Sinclair and Vincent I'll give you, but Marshall??!!
Hamish Marshall, began as a promising batsman, some to be desired in technique but had enough drive to succeed even at the highest level, probably one of the quickest single runners the games known, and a live wire in the field but.... what do you know, he's out of form.... he's still playing.... still bringing up low scores.... still playing... Let him play some FC or OD for a while? No he must play they say! And what do you know, he's a shadow of his former self and when finally dropped packs his bags and buggers off.


You'd think if you were so concerned you might spell his name properly. :p
Must have got confused, the speed always left me dazed wondering where my bails went.

They seem bad, but believe me ours can be horrible too, as I hope I've conveyed in the tour thread.
Media in general is awful but I can't stand the lack of faith in anything we do, Bangladesh beating us was a despicable assumption for the media to make, sure they could have said we may be troubled and if we're not careful they could bring us down, but to make it seem as if a Bangers victory was inevitable was pretty poor.

Pah, fingerspinner. Granted Hitchcock and O'Brien playing ahead of him recently was odd TSTL tho.
May as well add his perennial 12th man position in there too.

Yeah I mean come on, how often do we need to prove ourselves in the shorter game before people actually consider us one of the best in the world at it?

Hate to say it, but there are lack of ability issues there to boot.

Jeys, some people make a fuss about anything...
:cool: Too right but hope for the best.










Sorry, couldn't resist really. :p
Neither. ;)
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Hate to disrupt Sean's thread like this but this is actually really interesting...
Had at least the WC still in him, why a little more experience in our batting may have helped us get over Sri Lanka in the semi final.
Agree that it was odd to go so soon before the WC TBH, forgot about that, but he just seemed shot to me. Mind, he'd seemed that before. And I will always be glad he and McMillan retired so close together, the side just wouldn't have seemed right with 1 and not t'other.
Don't care if he never played for us again due to injury, to abandon him and fall into the BCCI's lap was despicable. The money hungriness for all of this is disgusting, what ever happened to the CRICKET? This man gave us more Test wins than our side has known for years and he looks to take care of himself and we hang him out to dry, I had hoped our board would have been man enough to take a stand. But money talks...
As I say - the handling by NZC (specifically the misguiding) was poor, no doubts, but the loss of the player I don't think was as significant as some seem to portray. He'd made-up his mind to give-up Tests before even thinking of ICLs, for instance.
His twins project, his favourite players, his disliked players. That whole psyche crap Astle talked about after his retirement. How is this man still in charge of the team?
I don't know, but as I say - complaints about a coach is commonplace. Heck, Duncan Fletcher, possibly the best thing ever to happen to English cricket, left with most of the cricket fraturnity saying "don't let the door hit you on the way out... or better still, do".
Hamish Marshall, began as a promising batsman, some to be desired in technique but had enough drive to succeed even at the highest level, probably one of the quickest single runners the games known, and a live wire in the field but.... what do you know, he's out of form.... he's still playing.... still bringing up low scores.... still playing... Let him play some FC or OD for a while? No he must play they say! And what do you know, he's a shadow of his former self and when finally dropped packs his bags and buggers off.
TBH, Marshall's distinctly average record at domestic level convinces me he'd just have done sod-all and disappeared from view had he been put back to domestic level.
Media in general is awful but I can't stand the lack of faith in anything we do, Bangladesh beating us was a despicable assumption for the media to make, sure they could have said we may be troubled and if we're not careful they could bring us down, but to make it seem as if a Bangers victory was inevitable was pretty poor.
As I say - the sort of stuff we've had over here really has been every bit as bad. And of a similar nature, too. If I didn't read so many posts from Kiwis on here I'd assume ours was comfortably worse than anyone else's too.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Agree that it was odd to go so soon before the WC TBH, forgot about that, but he just seemed shot to me. Mind, he'd seemed that before. And I will always be glad he and McMillan retired so close together, the side just wouldn't have seemed right with 1 and not t'other.
The irony of it all being Macca ended up replacing Astle in the team, hit great form and proved a master of T20. Both a big loss to NZ cricket, I would have loved to see them both play in a last Test with Fleming, those 3 should have retired together IMO, though in the end the layered retirements probably helped us find suitable replacements easier. Though Astle leaving pre WC was a big blow I feel.

As I say - the handling by NZC (specifically the misguiding) was poor, no doubts, but the loss of the player I don't think was as significant as some seem to portray. He'd made-up his mind to give-up Tests before even thinking of ICLs, for instance.
I believe that he was considering it but was hovering either way, he was frustrated at his constant injuries yet still wanted to play, in the end he found the best possible solution to his cause. Yet in the end the team dynamic isn't that badly hurt as the loss of Bond galvanized the others into being better bowlers, particularly Martin who took hold of the spearhead and so far has done well.

I don't know, but as I say - complaints about a coach is commonplace. Heck, Duncan Fletcher, possibly the best thing ever to happen to English cricket, left with most of the cricket fraturnity saying "don't let the door hit you on the way out... or better still, do".
Astle sited the coach as one of the main reasons of leaving, thats pretty bad IMO.

TBH, Marshall's distinctly average record at domestic level convinces me he'd just have done sod-all and disappeared from view had he been put back to domestic level.
We'll never know, personally I loved to watch him play till his form became so poor any twin loving freak would have to realise that Hamish had to be dropped. Reckon if he had been treated better things may have turned out differently.

As I say - the sort of stuff we've had over here really has been every bit as bad. And of a similar nature, too. If I didn't read so many posts from Kiwis on here I'd assume ours was comfortably worse than anyone else's too.
With what seems like dozens of reports about how badly the English were going to whip us I'm not so sure in this regard, though the media around the world relish to pick at scabs and wounds.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
I will confine this to things from my lifetime as I'm no historian on English cricket...

1. Drunken yobs at the cricket. This really spoils live viewing for me. If I need a load of drunken men shouting and leering at any woman that walks past I can go into town on a Saturday night.
:laugh: Well said, though I'd advise you not to go and watch cricket in Australia - sadly we make your boys look positively genteel in comparison.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
SL

1. Hair being allowed to umpire Test cricket, FC cricket or even Grade cricket
2. Made to play a D/N World Cup Final, with no lights
3. A poor structure to domestic cricket
4. Politics influences cricket in every form from domestic struture to selections
5. Poor quality of domestic pitches
6. Lack of a real recruitment policy to find cricketers outside the main centres in Sri Lanka
7. Poor training methods for teenage cricketers where performance is greater then technique. Too much importance played during the school system on winning matches and not improving techniques
8. Political dominance of top couple domestic clubs and their influence of this power for domestic cricket.
9. Lack of money in Sri Lankan cricket
10. Lack of coaching of domestic umpires
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
No. Massive number of players don't in fact play cricket at a level that would warrant so many FC teams. If you only use a simple criteria that only people who have ever played with a real cricket ball in real life are counted, the # of players is probably equivalent to England.
wouldn't go that far but honestly, 27 is too many..... I would rather 12 or 15 play at the top level and another 6 or 7 at a level below that and that is it....
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
For whom ????? :ph34r:
Me and John, naturally. :p
The irony of it all being Macca ended up replacing Astle in the team, hit great form and proved a master of T20. Both a big loss to NZ cricket, I would have loved to see them both play in a last Test with Fleming, those 3 should have retired together IMO
Yeah, I'd have liked that too. Whether Astle, especially, could have kept-up the performance levels is another question tho.
Astle sited the coach as one of the main reasons of leaving, thats pretty bad IMO.
Well, Duncan Fletcher at least mostly retained the support of the camp, and Bracewell might be a bit worse than the norm, but as I say - I've never yet seen a set of cricket fans who remain satisfied with a coach for that long. Never. Regardless of any circumstances.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
wouldn't go that far but honestly, 27 is too many..... I would rather 12 or 15 play at the top level and another 6 or 7 at a level below that and that is it....
I'd say about 8-12 would be ideal. Or even better, make Duleep Trophy the premier FC competition with a long season, with Ranji being played concurrently which feeds into Duleep. The international players would be scouted and picked from the Duleep teams.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
I'd say about 8-12 would be ideal. Or even better, make Duleep Trophy the premier FC competition with a long season, with Ranji being played concurrently which feeds into Duleep. The international players would be scouted and picked from the Duleep teams.
Would expand the Duleep into a similar comp like IPL for FC and 50-over cricket and allows some overseas players who countries don't pay them enough to play in the competition. Reckon it would be awsome.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I'd say about 8-12 would be ideal. Or even better, make Duleep Trophy the premier FC competition with a long season, with Ranji being played concurrently which feeds into Duleep. The international players would be scouted and picked from the Duleep teams.
Would expand the Duleep into a similar comp like IPL for FC and 50-over cricket and allows some overseas players who countries don't pay them enough to play in the competition. Reckon it would be awsome.


Love both ideas but practically, they are waaaaaaay off the mark. First of all, cricket is a team sport and at any level, only when you have AT LEAST some allegience to your team, it adds that extra little bit that makes it that much better... For a player or even for spectators and with the zones, Duleep won't do it. Maybe we can actually have the IPL expand into 4 day and 1 day games, with all of our other domestic comps being feeders, with lesser foreign players per team, of course.... That would be taken care anyways, with the tours programme and other international and domestic cricket coming in.


Ideally, if the IPL does take off in the next 3-5 years, what I would like to see is the IPL starting off its own FC and OD competitions as well, with the teams mainly being the same, obviously recruiting more from the "catchment areas" as and when needed, and allowing however many of the overseas signings are available to pay for them... And please, please, please scrap that Champions League idea... It juz wouldn't work when you have so many overseas players playing in the IPL. Let the IPL remain juz that, a one-off unique domestic league with international stars in the Twenty20 format, for now.


But if the IPL does catch on and they move on to FC and OD competitions, as I said, on the availability basis, they can allow the foreign players to play while they can also actively recruit other domestic players, esp. from the catchment areas and also from other countries who don't have matches at that time... And the Ranji, Duleep and everything else can act as feeders for the IPL in THAT scenario..... Well, I can always dream, I guess.. :p :)
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Love both ideas but practically, they are waaaaaaay off the mark. First of all, cricket is a team sport and at any level, only when you have AT LEAST some allegience to your team, it adds that extra little bit that makes it that much better... For a player or even for spectators and with the zones, Duleep won't do it.
Spectators? There are like six people in India who give a crap about Ranji Trophy, and five of them are on the selection panel. No one else gives a crap. As for players, they move around a lot these days anyway, so there is no allegiance to your city in any case.
 

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