Australia recently retired XI

[Richard]

Maher and di Venuto haven't though.

 

[Prince EWS]

Maher and di Venuto haven't though.

It's implied.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, I know. But I think the idea is those who've officially stopped playing state cricket in Australia (or are about to), rather than stopped representing their country.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Maher's an opener - put him at the top with Elliott, di Venuto three, Langer four, Lehmann five. And TBH, Martyn, McGrath and Warne (who is actually still playing) are ancient history now - replace them with Bichel and Hogg, and add Nicholson as a fifth bowler. Put Tait in as the substitute fielder, though with somewhat trepidation.

Your insistence that Langer is not an opener continues to be ridiculous - he's one of the more successful opening batsman of the last twenty or so years.

Even if you think he's better suited at four - he's so much better as an opening batsman than Maher and played the best part of the last decade at the top of the order.

 

[Richard]

Maher is an opener, and has almost never batted anywhere else. Langer has shown himself more than capable of batting at three, doing the job with distinction for WA, Middlesex and (as everyone seems to forget) Australia.

If I have Maher and Langer in my side, and one opening berth, I'm going to give it to Maher. If I have, say, Lehmann and Langer in my side, I'm going to give the opening berth to Langer.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Maher is an opener, and has almost never batted anywhere else. Langer has shown himself more than capable of batting at three, doing the job with distinction for WA, Middlesex and (as everyone seems to forget) Australia.

If I have Maher and Langer in my side, and one opening berth, I'm going to give it to Maher. If I have, say, Lehmann and Langer in my side, I'm going to give the opening berth to Langer.

At the very least you'd have Langer at three then?

 

[Prince EWS]

Maher is an opener, and has almost never batted anywhere else. Langer has shown himself more than capable of batting at three, doing the job with distinction for WA, Middlesex and (as everyone seems to forget) Australia.

If I have Maher and Langer in my side, and one opening berth, I'm going to give it to Maher. If I have, say, Lehmann and Langer in my side, I'm going to give the opening berth to Langer.

Jimmy Maher had played 56 First Class games before he'd ever opened the batting. He was a makeshift opener at first class level - one that paid off.

 

[Richard]

Jimmy Maher had played 56 First Class games before he'd ever opened the batting. He was a makeshift opener at first class level - one that paid off.

Seriously? When did he open for the first time then?

At the very least you'd have Langer at three then?

Well, di Venuto seems to me to benefit more from being closer to the top of the order than Langer does. But I suppose you could have either of them at three and the other at four.

 

[chaminda_00]

di Venuto played most his FC career in the middle order batsmen, it was only at the back end of his career once Hills and Cox retired he starting opening regularly for Tasmania.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Haha, Richard getting pwned left right and centre.

 

[Richard]

di Venuto played most his FC career in the middle order batsmen, it was only at the back end of his career once Hills and Cox retired he starting opening regularly for Tasmania.

I know that, but he was far more successful once he moved to the opening slot (oddly). I'd say he benefits more from being up the order than Langer does.

 

[chaminda_00]

So who has a better record batting at 4 & 5, di venuto or Langer. If you have too many openers in a side Maher and Di Venuto would be first two guys you drop down, as they have solid records as middle order batsmen.

 

[Richard]

Have any of the three (Maher, di Venuto and Langer) ever batted (regularly) below four? Or even three?

 

[chaminda_00]

Have any of the three (Maher, di Venuto and Langer) ever batted (regularly) below four? Or even three?

di Venuto and Maher have both batted regularly at 4 and 5 at the start of their careers. Langer batted regular at 3 for WA, a large percentage of his innings were there. Seriously do you follow any Australian domestic cricket?

 

[Richard]

Since about 2001\02, yes. But not before. And I haven't looked back at every single scorecard from before then.

The first time I came accross Maher, he was an opener. The only positions I've ever seen di Venuto bat at are three and opener. I'd never seen Langer open (though I'm assured he did a few times) for anyone before the Test at The Oval in 2001.

 

[Prince EWS]

Since about 2001\02, yes. But not before. And I haven't looked back at every single scorecard from before then.

The first time I came accross Maher, he was an opener. The only positions I've ever seen di Venuto bat at are three and opener. I'd never seen Langer open (though I'm assured he did a few times) for anyone before the Test at The Oval in 2001.

Why does everything revolve around that point in time though?

Langer, Maher and Di Venuto were all very similar cases - they started their careers in the middle order and were pushed up to open, then had success there and remained in that position. Maher actually spent most of early FC career down at #5 and #6, before going to #3 for just a few games (while Martin Love opened!) and then opening. He's a textbook case of a makeshift opener. The fact that you didn't wake up to his career until he was opening really has no relevance to it at all.

 

[chaminda_00]

Since about 2001\02, yes. But not before. And I haven't looked back at every single scorecard from before then.

The first time I came accross Maher, he was an opener. The only positions I've ever seen di Venuto bat at are three and opener. I'd never seen Langer open (though I'm assured he did a few times) for anyone before the Test at The Oval in 2001.

Just so you can have some sort of education, as you clearly missed the start of all their careers.

In Maher's first three season he batted at 5 & 6. Even when Hayden got called up to Australia A and Australian squad they tried quite a few openers ahead of him. It wasn't until Trevor Barsby retired in 96/97 he started opening the batting. As the other opener they tried before didn't look like they were going to long term options.

Langer started his career as opening batsmen, but got pushed down to three after the return of Geoff Marsh to the WA squad after he retired from Tests. They also had another Test opener in Mike Veletta as well. He ended up getting selected in Tests at three so they kept him three.

Di Venuto started at 3 and played most of the first half of his career at No 3 behind Hills and Cox. Even when Hills retired Tassie tired quite a few openers ahead of him. He has first big season at 4, when Bevan came to Tasmania and batted at 3. It only been like the last three seasons that he has opened the batting.

 

[Richard]

The fact that you didn't wake up to his career until he was opening really has no relevance to it at all.

When did I say it did have?

I'll happily listen to you and Tharmi, who've clearly followed the careers of said batsmen further back than I have.