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Thread: Waugh, Border or Ponting?

  1. #46
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    Border was the most effective batsman, but he did have more of a chance to show his wares as, in my view, he played against superior attacks.
    Agreed the Eighties attacks better then the nineties IMHO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixFire View Post
    Interesting that you rate Border as a better batsman than Waugh and Ponting.
    Ponting might have much a superior average but he's doing it against much lesser attacks & much flatter wickets than what Border & Waugh did.Thats why I rate Border & Waugh as better batsmen than Ponting.

  3. #48
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Agreed the Eighties attacks better then the nineties IMHO.
    So much so that the decade merits a sparius (can't remember if that's how it's spelt) capital letter?

    How would they qualify as so, incidentally?
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    Quote Originally Posted by khawi View Post
    Where is MArk Taylor?
    With Taylor, its pretty clear he's the best of these captain and worst as a batsman. With the others, its not so sure.


  5. #50
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Roy & HG summed it up last night at the AB Medal ceremony in their tribute to AB, which basically went something like this:

    In the 80s, the team was crap. He scored all the runs, took all the wickets, held all the catches, carried the drinks onto the field, put out the boundary markers, knocked the stumps in, tossed the coin, mowed the ground, peeled the oranges and sometimes acted as team physio, just to name a few.

    Also, when would Waugh or Ponting assert their authoritah like AB did on the 93 tour? They showed that footage last night from a tour match where he's talking to McDermott, McDermott said somethign back. AB's like "What did you say mate? Try that sh*t with me again mate, and you'll be on the next ****ing plane home!"

    Gold. These days the aggrieved bowler would probably curl up in a ball and start sucking his thumb.
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  6. #51
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Which '93 tour? To New Zealand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    You've left the bloke who was the best Australian captain of the last 20 years out!
    Exactly what I was thinking, sort of detracts from the original question.

  8. #53
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Which '93 tour? To New Zealand?
    No, it was the 93 Ashes tour in a warm-up game (back when they still had 'em).

  9. #54
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    in batting ----> Ponting, Waugh & Border
    in captaincy ----> i guess, it's much easier to captain an OZ team given its professionalism and talent than some of the other sides but if i had to rank them then it would be Waugh, Border [I heard that he rebuild the OZ team in the 80s] and Ponting

    from the OZ skippers, Mark Taylor was probably one of the best captains that I hv ever seen along with Imran Khan and Martin Crowe
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  10. #55
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    In all honesty, I know it's a bit OT, but the best bloke I ever saw captain the Aussies, tactically-speaking, was Shane Warne. I remember watching a ODI in about 1998 where the Saffies were absolutely cruising when Steve Waugh went off the field for a bit because he was injured and Warnie took over. For the next 10 or so overs, the whole complexion of the game changed and if you ignored the score (SA were 2/plenty chasing a low score with two batsmen in and set), they suddenly looked in all sorts of trouble. Two things;

    - Warnie's fields were interesting. He not only dried up all scoring options but retained enough attacking fielders to make the SA batsmen seriously look average. It was quite weird to see the game get turned on its head like that purely by fields which were very unusual.

    - The rest of the team to a man got behind him. Suddenly the listless Aussie team were putting in, diving desperately for everything, the bowling was tighter, etc. A couple of wickets fell and SA, from a position of total dominance, looked as if they could lose the match.

    Then Steve Waugh came back on the field, the game returned to business and usual and an easy win for SA resulted.

    I know Ian Chappell was a fan of Warnie as captain instead of Waugh and there were plenty of others. Once the team started winning regularly, those criticisms faded but yeah Warnie as captain was something else. Whenever he took over, even for short periods, he looked the part. One of those things we'll never know for sure, unfortunately.
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  11. #56
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    No, it was the 93 Ashes tour in a warm-up game (back when they still had 'em).
    Oh, right. Must've been an early warm-up game then, 'cos McDermott didn't last long on that tour.

    Twisted bowel.

  12. #57
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    In all honesty, I know it's a bit OT, but the best bloke I ever saw captain the Aussies, tactically-speaking, was Shane Warne. I remember watching a ODI in about 1998 where the Saffies were absolutely cruising when Steve Waugh went off the field for a bit because he was injured and Warnie took over. For the next 10 or so overs, the whole complexion of the game changed and if you ignored the score (SA were 2/plenty chasing a low score with two batsmen in and set), they suddenly looked in all sorts of trouble. Two things;

    - Warnie's fields were interesting. He not only dried up all scoring options but retained enough attacking fielders to make the SA batsmen seriously look average. It was quite weird to see the game get turned on its head like that purely by fields which were very unusual.

    - The rest of the team to a man got behind him. Suddenly the listless Aussie team were putting in, diving desperately for everything, the bowling was tighter, etc. A couple of wickets fell and SA, from a position of total dominance, looked as if they could lose the match.

    Then Steve Waugh came back on the field, the game returned to business and usual and an easy win for SA resulted.

    I know Ian Chappell was a fan of Warnie as captain instead of Waugh and there were plenty of others. Once the team started winning regularly, those criticisms faded but yeah Warnie as captain was something else. Whenever he took over, even for short periods, he looked the part. One of those things we'll never know for sure, unfortunately.
    Well Ian Chappell being a fan of someone instead of Stephen Waugh doesn't really mean much TBH.

    But I quite see what you mean - the exact same thing happened the following year against England and Sri Lanka when Warne again deputised for Waugh. Warne was a terrific one-day captain on big grounds with high-calibre seam-bowlers - he almost always kept the field up, which is exactly what you need to do - too many people for the last 10-15 years have dropped the field back too quickly.

    Over here, for Hants, whenever I've seen him captain in a one-day game I've always been roundly unimpressed; he's repeatedly kept bowlers on for one over too long and a decent spell (say, 5-19-1) has turned into a wholly average one (say, 6-30-1); he's never putting enough defence on the shorter boundaries which you sometimes get on grounds over here; and he has an inflated opinion of the capabilities of spin, often bowling it in the Powerplay and slog overs, something which simply doesn't work over here, often even for a bowler of the calibre of himself. Spin is a middle-overs-only thing in England and nothing has ever changed that.

  13. #58
    U19 Captain burr's Avatar
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    I love AB. And usually I hate cricketers like him - all dour with no style but there's just something about him - he's so iconic in Australian cricket. Loved, loved the Roy and HG 'tribute' at the AB medal. Ponting's the best batsman though, easily.
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  14. #59
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    Australia has produced some fine captains over the past recent years from I.Chappell, G.Chappell, A.Border, M.Taylor, S.Waugh, R.Ponting. Most of these have succeeded to different extents. Only exceptions have been K.Hughes and G.Yallop perhaps.

    Overall, taking all into consideration, batting, bowling, fielding, captaincy, Alan Border stands out from the rest. Thats probably why we have a medal in his honor

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Roy & HG summed it up last night at the AB Medal ceremony in their tribute to AB, which basically went something like this:

    In the 80s, the team was crap. He scored all the runs, took all the wickets, held all the catches, carried the drinks onto the field, put out the boundary markers, knocked the stumps in, tossed the coin, mowed the ground, peeled the oranges and sometimes acted as team physio, just to name a few.

    Also, when would Waugh or Ponting assert their authoritah like AB did on the 93 tour? They showed that footage last night from a tour match where he's talking to McDermott, McDermott said somethign back. AB's like "What did you say mate? Try that sh*t with me again mate, and you'll be on the next ****ing plane home!"

    Gold. These days the aggrieved bowler would probably curl up in a ball and start sucking his thumb.
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