Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 54

Thread: Stephen Fleming to retire from International Cricket

  1. #1
    School Boy/Girl Captain
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    140

    Fleming has Retired

    How can one sum up Fleming's Career? I guess by now everybody has heard the plaudits and read the Stats and Hard Data, Most Runs by a NewZealander, Most Tests by A New Zealander, Most Test Victories by a New Zealand Captain, Our Greatest Ever Batsman.

    Although those who have worked in Stats know, the numbers have to be broken down to get a more Honest and Clearer picture of his career. Yes Fleming is still a Great Batsmen and a Good Captain, but if your going to dig deeper you will some other Stats that kinda puts his Career into perspective.

    Of his 28 Test Wins, 17 have been against the Minnows, Bangladesh (6), Zimbawae (6), West Indies (5).

    He Never won a Test against Australia or a Series against South Africa or Pakistan.

    He never made a world cup final.

    He has the second worst conversion rate of 50's to 100's in Test History.

    He has a 0-9 record against Australia

    He has a 2-10 record against South Africa

    He has a 2-5 record against Pakistan

    He has a 3-8 record against Sri Lanka

    You may ask, what is my beef with Fleming?, well here it it. He is an amazing Batsmen, he is so naturally gifted it's beyond belief, to watch him stroke the ball for ten years has been a delight, I cannot for my life fathom someone who is so gifted, underachieving as Fleming has done.

    If you get 43 50's, you should have more centuries, if you are Captain you should be leading by example to the younger players during training, you should be in the Nets to all hours working on your game, something that Fleming has never liked to do. Sure he completes his Net Sessions, but thats it, he was never like a Warne or a Ponting, players who would stay for hours after the official training sessions.

    Then there was his Image, he was a media Darling, every NZ commentator will tell the public, what a wonderful, soft spoken young man he is, who is also very thickskinned, he is a great Ambassador for the game they say. Well Image is different to reality, as people who have meet Fleming, might tell you.

    The media also keep quite on a few issues, the Blackcaps partying at Night during the middle of test Matches and having Journalists out with them, whom told the public the next day, that the team were in bed at a decent hour. I don't think 330am is a decent hour if you have to bat the next day.

    They also keep quiet on how Fleming had a BIG say in the selection of the team, sometimes at a cost to the blackcaps.

    Still, I am probably far to picky, I mean what kind of idiot, would bag a guy who has scored nearly 7000 runs for his country and is loved and admired all over the cricket world, a guy who has hold our fragile batting order together, a guy who has represented his country in his chosen sport for over ten years, a guy who will go on to be successful in anything he does.

    I just have the belief, that if you went to Fleming at the start of his career and told him, You will never beat Aussie in a test or Pakistan and South Africa in a series, but you will play 100 tests and average 39, I don't think he would except that, because in the end, a Great Player will have a Great Career, a Legend will give his team Victories

  2. #2
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    The Castle
    Posts
    41,214
    Welcome to the forum Brett.

    You raise some good points re. Fleming imo, though I still regard him as a fine player and a pretty incisive captain.

    Still, as a leader imo so much depends on the cattle which you have that it isn't funny. I tend to think that he did pretty damn well with the sides he led.
    WWCC - Loyaulte Mi Lie
    "People make me happy.. not places.. people"

    "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life." - Samuel Johnson

    "Hope is the fuel of progress and fear is the prison in which you put yourself" - Tony Benn

  3. #3
    Hall of Fame Member NZTailender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Dunedin, Otago, New Zealand
    Posts
    19,450
    New Zealand cricket won't be the same, simply. Love the guy, as a batsman, captain and general player.

    Loved watching him bat. Has the most beautiful drive I've ever seen IMO. Seeing him full flight truly was a treat.


    People will always point to his poor conversion rate, or his record against the top side. People tend to also forget he was basically the only quality New Zealand batsman in a side at times, the only one who would regualarly make runs. During his time NZ never had a big talent pool. Countries like Australia, England and India have a great talent pool to choose from in comparison. New Zealand have a handful plus the best of the rest who go together to make up a team. He lead them extremely well when I think IMO a different captain would've done worse.


    Thanks Flem. You will be missed.
    President of SKAS - Kat is King | Proud member of CVAAS - One of the best | LRPLTAS - Rosco rocks!
    The NZTailender Supporting XI:
    H Rutherford, N Broom, Craig Cachopa, M Bracewell, D Brownlie, BJ Watling, D de Boorder+, I Sodhi, B Wheeler, H Bennett, A Milne
    Go Tigers!
    R.I.P. Fardin & Craig

  4. #4
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    54,564
    LOL @ putting the WI as a minnow. They just won a test vs. SA. They're the worst of the main teams, but they're not a minnow.

    I respect Fleming a hell of a lot. Seems like a great guy, and I love his captaincy. Its so much more than him clogging up point vs. Martyn, you actually have to watch the games and see the moves he makes to understand how tactically brilliant he is.

    With regards to his batting, he was good, sometimes very good (particularly in ODIs), but was definitely not a great batsman. Was good to watch when he was on though.
    "I am very happy and it will allow me to have lot more rice."

    Eoin Morgan on being given a rice cooker for being Man of the Match in a Dhaka Premier Division game.


  5. #5
    State Vice-Captain MoxPearl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,322
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Dale View Post
    Still, I am probably far to picky, I mean what kind of idiot, would bag a guy who has scored nearly 7000 runs for his country and is loved and admired all over the cricket world, a guy who has hold our fragile batting order together, a guy who has represented his country in his chosen sport for over ten years, a guy who will go on to be successful in anything he does.
    You

    its a bit crap to crap on bout all his test failures when hes been our best ever ODI captain .....
    Last edited by MoxPearl; 13-02-2008 at 10:04 PM.

  6. #6
    Hall of Fame Member Smudge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Deep, deep south
    Posts
    16,647
    You seem to have some "inside knowledge", Brett - much of which i'm taking with a massive grain of salt. Regardless, I think it's pretty low-handed of you to bring it up on his retirement.

  7. #7
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Looking for milksteak
    Posts
    31,678
    Very sad, one of my favourite cricketers.
    Rest In Peace Craigos
    2003-2012

  8. #8
    U19 Cricketer armchairumpire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    404
    Quote Originally Posted by Voltman View Post
    You seem to have some "inside knowledge", Brett - much of which i'm taking with a massive grain of salt. Regardless, I think it's pretty low-handed of you to bring it up on his retirement.
    I heard Fleming was a bit alloof with fans. However, I enjoyed his cricket very much. No-one is perfect.

    Brett - if you have any "inside knowledge" please share it so that we can judge for ourselves rather than taking your word for the "dark side" of Stephen Fleming.
    Last edited by armchairumpire; 13-02-2008 at 10:20 PM.

  9. #9
    International Coach KiWiNiNjA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    In the kitchen
    Posts
    10,587
    R.i.p

  10. #10
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    On top of a pile of money, surrounded by many beautiful women
    Posts
    7,665
    Shame that his career had to end now. If it wasn't for the captaincy debacle I reckon he would have stayed on for at least 1 more season.

    As a test batsman, Fleming was always one who flattered to deceive. When he arrived on the scene as a 20 year old back in 1993/94, he was seen as the natural successor to Crowe. Tall, elegant and powerful, he was comfortably the most talented young batsman to come through in the 1990's. He's played some great knocks, and won us more than a few ODI's (and even the odd test match). Unfortunately he never really lived up to Crowe's mantle as a batsman (even if he did as a captain), and will always viewed in the same category as Cairns, a player who only fulfilled his immense talent on fleeting occasions. All the same, he has been our 2nd best test batsman (after Richardson) since the retirement of Crowe, and certainly the most attractive to watch when on form, and currently remains one of the few genuinely international class batsmen in our test lineup.

    Cheers for the memories Flem, you will be missed.

  11. #11
    School Boy/Girl Captain
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by MoxPearl View Post
    You

    its a bit crap to crap on bout all his test failures when hes been our best ever ODI captain .....
    Yes as a one day captain he was brillant, I judge him by Test results though.

  12. #12
    School Boy/Girl Captain
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by Voltman View Post
    You seem to have some "inside knowledge", Brett - much of which i'm taking with a massive grain of salt. Regardless, I think it's pretty low-handed of you to bring it up on his retirement.
    I dont think it was low handed, I said he is a Great Player, I just think now that he is retiring, people should look at all the points of his career, the good and bad.

  13. #13
    School Boy/Girl Captain
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by armchairumpire View Post
    I heard Fleming was a bit alloof with fans. However, I enjoyed his cricket very much. No-one is perfect.

    Brett - if you have any "inside knowledge" please share it so that we can judge for ourselves rather than taking your word for the "dark side" of Stephen Fleming.
    Its not really inside knowledge, common knowledge from around his home town, its not too dark of a nature, Like everybody i guess, he is on his best behavior for the media, but when they are not around he may be a bit different.

  14. #14
    Global Moderator Somerset's Avatar
    Money Money Money Champion! Tournaments Won: 7
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    9,863
    Personally I have always regarded him as our best cricketer alongside Shane Bond and this IS a huge loss. Forget about the conversion rate (I mean, at least he gets to 50 consistently enough - theres an idea for the Taylors, Sinclairs and Fultons of the team) and his lack of wins against Australia (which as Richard Boock will remind us should've been broken in 2001 at Perth). He is a class batsman who has undoubtable been our best since Martin Crowe. Yes, Crowe averaged five runs more but this isn't a debate about who the best New Zealand batsman of all time is.

    Imagine Fleming playing half of his tests on belters in Australia, rather green tops in New Zealand. Imagine Fleming batting at number three of four behind Langer and Hayden, Trescothick, Strauss and Vaughan, Smith and Gibbs. The situations hes faced given the New Zealand test side have been far greater and extreme than the majority of his opponents.

    The flack hes received on radio talkback has been quite appalling. He is without a doubt a fantastic skipper, a class batsman and a quite marvellous ambassador for not only New Zealand cricket but for cricket in general. He deserves to make 10 test centuries and push his average up to 40 (which for New Zealanders ranks him considerably high) but even if he doesn't achieve that, I personally will consider him the best player in the side and nigh on unreplacable for composure and class.

  15. #15
    School Boy/Girl Cricketer Dusty Lee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    52
    I've always thought he was a bit over rated. Just 9 centuries in 108 test matches doesn't exactly put him amongst the greats.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 147
    Last Post: 27-01-2008, 09:38 AM
  2. Stephen Fleming
    By Tim in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 02-10-2006, 11:03 PM
  3. Stephen Fleming
    By Lyell_Chris in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 31-01-2005, 09:04 AM
  4. Stephen Fleming off to Yorkshire
    By Tim in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-06-2003, 02:37 PM
  5. Stephen Fleming?
    By James in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-02-2002, 07:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •