Quota issue in South Africa costing Mickey Arthur his job?

Jono · 07-02-2008, 11:08 AM

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/sout...ry/335415.html

Figured it deserved its own thread rather than simply going in the SA in Bangladesh tour thread.

Thoughts? I'm pretty sure we all have a universal opinion that in general, the idea of quotas (and the transformation policy, or at least how it is being implemented) in South African selection is fairly poor. I know I've read various opinions as to whether the influence of quotas is exaggerated or not, and whereby some coloured players are accused of only getting in on quotas when in fact their performances back up their selection.

However if Mickey Arthur's job as coach is under threat because of the squad he helped select for the Bangladesh tour, then there could be a serious problem.

BoyBrumby · 07-02-2008, 11:56 AM

Winning a world cup didn't keep Jake White in a job is all I'm saying...

Goughy · 07-02-2008, 01:36 PM

Quotas are a cancer that is really hurting SA cricket. Simple as.

Ive been involved in the system and its a mess. Keeping a certain number of places at junior cricket, provincial cricket, franchise cricket and International cricket for non-whites isnt going to make Blacks want to abandon the sports they culturally and historically play and make them great at cricket.

The Western Cape will always produce non-white talent as it is a place where the sport is culturally important. However, Gauteng (where Jo'burg and Pretoria are located) has invested 10s of millions of rand on Black cricket development but Soccer and Boxing still dominate.

Its accurate, but maybe an oversimplification, to say the Black talent that is produced comes for the same wealthy schools with a cricket tradition that the White players come from. The huge investment in poor areas has reaped very little in terms of interest or talent. There is also no reason why it should. People play what they want, and the best athletes in a region tend to play the traditional sports.

Ive no doubt that if baseball invested heavily in the UK there would be a decent participation, but the key is that the best athletes and ball players would still be drawn to Football, Cricket, Union and League first.

Keeping spaces for non-white players weakens SA cricket as a competition, doesnt make non-white talent work hard to develop their game and drives White talent away from the game.

As always the issue has nothing to do with sport but politics and politicians that have (self confessed) no regard for the success of a team but only its demographics.

TT Boy · 07-02-2008, 03:31 PM

Would be slightly ironic if Mickey Arthur is sacked due to transformation issues considering only in November he was hailed as being a patron of transformation within South African cricket. He even kept his job after the World Cup for he walked the governmental line and selected a squad with coloured cricketers he had no intention of playing.

Langeveldt · 07-02-2008, 03:40 PM

Pretty much agree with what Goughy said, and lest we forget, quotas are not only in place on the sports field but in every day life.. Our politics is overtaking us as I heard it so beautifully put a while back.. Ironic that in 95 when we lifted the rugby world cup it was seen as bringing a nation together, and now it seems to be a bit of an embaressment to the establishment that white South Africa still seems to be so succesful..

James_W · 07-02-2008, 03:55 PM

You pick your best players, and that should be the end of the argument. South Africa has progressed as a country, this 'transformation policy' is a joke.

Protean · 08-02-2008, 01:10 AM

This is ridiculous, especially coming on the heels of the government denouncing the quota system in sport after the RWC. How embarrassing for an amazing player like Herschelle Gibbs when things like this come up, it is so demeaning, and I fail to understand how Arendse can't see that.

Dan · 08-02-2008, 01:20 AM

Pick your best team, full stop, end of story!

If it contains 11 coloured players, or 11 white players, so be it. Pick your best XI for the conditions.

Beleg · 08-02-2008, 02:00 AM

Quotas are merely a legal cover for racism/sexism/insert your favourite -ism here.

Langeveldt · 08-02-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protean

This is ridiculous, especially coming on the heels of the government denouncing the quota system in sport after the RWC. How embarrassing for an amazing player like Herschelle Gibbs when things like this come up, it is so demeaning, and I fail to understand how Arendse can't see that.

Did they really? I'm pleasantly surprised..

The deadset worst thing about the quota system, is that whenever a coloured person of any special ability gets picked for a position because they deserve it (I'm thinking our new rugby coach, and guys like Monde Zondeki), they just get the token tag wrapped around them before they have even arrived at their position..

silentstriker · 08-02-2008, 11:41 AM

IMO if they want to encourage black atheletes, they should target them at the lowest level and give them scholarships to schools that have traditionally produced good players. From that point on, there should be no quotas and the best players should be selected to go forward.

Protean · 08-02-2008, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langeveldt

Did they really? I'm pleasantly surprised..

http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/...7111034903.asp

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentstriker

IMO if they want to encourage black atheletes, they should target them at the lowest level and give them scholarships to schools that have traditionally produced good players. From that point on, there should be no quotas and the best players should be selected to go forward.

The problem is they want it to be immediate, no patience at all. I think they are trying to do that too now though. Anyway CSA has announced the issue between Arendse and Arthur will be dealt with internally.

Perm · 09-02-2008, 02:10 AM

I like Arthur, and I'm glad he's sticking up for himself. The whole quota issue is ridiculous, and always has been. Unfortunately I can't see it being fixed anytime soon.

Langeveldt · 09-02-2008, 01:20 PM

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...3324302C456293

Deadset disgrace, tempted to boycott national games as a fan, but probably too few of us will be willing to do so in order to make any sort of a difference... Bleak day for South African sport and our "democratic process"

Perm · 09-02-2008, 01:43 PM

Just another chapter in the ridiciulous saga.

07-02-2008, 11:08 AM	#1 (permalink)
Jono Request Your Custom Title Now! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Virat Kohli Posts: 47,527	Quota issue in South Africa costing Mickey Arthur his job? http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/sout...ry/335415.html Figured it deserved its own thread rather than simply going in the SA in Bangladesh tour thread. Thoughts? I'm pretty sure we all have a universal opinion that in general, the idea of quotas (and the transformation policy, or at least how it is being implemented) in South African selection is fairly poor. I know I've read various opinions as to whether the influence of quotas is exaggerated or not, and whereby some coloured players are accused of only getting in on quotas when in fact their performances back up their selection. However if Mickey Arthur's job as coach is under threat because of the squad he helped select for the Bangladesh tour, then there could be a serious problem.

07-02-2008, 11:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
BoyBrumby Englishman Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Doing the stance Posts: 42,645	Winning a world cup didn't keep Jake White in a job is all I'm saying... __________________ *- As featured in The Independent.* "This is not the time for namby-pamby promising youngsters who might just do something; not the time for building for the future. Pragmatism rules and they don't come more pragmatic than Rogers." - Victor Marks makes the case for stiff-legged and stiff-armed 35 year old left-handers in Ashes squads

07-02-2008, 01:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
Goughy International Coach Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: All Over Posts: 14,638	Quotas are a cancer that is really hurting SA cricket. Simple as. Ive been involved in the system and its a mess. Keeping a certain number of places at junior cricket, provincial cricket, franchise cricket and International cricket for non-whites isnt going to make Blacks want to abandon the sports they culturally and historically play and make them great at cricket. The Western Cape will always produce non-white talent as it is a place where the sport is culturally important. However, Gauteng (where Jo'burg and Pretoria are located) has invested 10s of millions of rand on Black cricket development but Soccer and Boxing still dominate. Its accurate, but maybe an oversimplification, to say the Black talent that is produced comes for the same wealthy schools with a cricket tradition that the White players come from. The huge investment in poor areas has reaped very little in terms of interest or talent. There is also no reason why it should. People play what they want, and the best athletes in a region tend to play the traditional sports. Ive no doubt that if baseball invested heavily in the UK there would be a decent participation, but the key is that the best athletes and ball players would still be drawn to Football, Cricket, Union and League first. Keeping spaces for non-white players weakens SA cricket as a competition, doesnt make non-white talent work hard to develop their game and drives White talent away from the game. As always the issue has nothing to do with sport but politics and politicians that have (self confessed) no regard for the success of a team but only its demographics. __________________ If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there is bound to be edits West Robham Rabid Wolves Caedere lemma quod eat lemma Happy Birthday! (easier than using Birthday threads) Email and MSN- Goughy at cricketmail dot net

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07-02-2008, 03:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
TT Boy Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: . Posts: 16,321	Would be slightly ironic if Mickey Arthur is sacked due to transformation issues considering only in November he was hailed as being a patron of transformation within South African cricket. He even kept his job after the World Cup for he walked the governmental line and selected a squad with coloured cricketers he had no intention of playing.

07-02-2008, 03:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
James_W U19 Vice-Captain Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belfast, NI Posts: 564	You pick your best players, and that should be the end of the argument. South Africa has progressed as a country, this 'transformation policy' is a joke.

08-02-2008, 01:10 AM	#7 (permalink)
Protean State Regular Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 941	This is ridiculous, especially coming on the heels of the government denouncing the quota system in sport after the RWC. How embarrassing for an amazing player like Herschelle Gibbs when things like this come up, it is so demeaning, and I fail to understand how Arendse can't see that.

08-02-2008, 01:20 AM	#8 (permalink)
Dan Global Moderator Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 3,101	Pick your best team, full stop, end of story! If it contains 11 coloured players, or 11 white players, so be it. Pick your best XI for the conditions.

08-02-2008, 02:00 AM	#9 (permalink)
Beleg International Regular Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,400	Quotas are merely a legal cover for racism/sexism/insert your favourite -ism here.

09-02-2008, 01:20 PM	#14 (permalink)
Langeveldt Soutie Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Stellenbosch - South Africa Posts: 29,336	http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...3324302C456293 Deadset disgrace, tempted to boycott national games as a fan, but probably too few of us will be willing to do so in order to make any sort of a difference... Bleak day for South African sport and our "democratic process"

09-02-2008, 01:43 PM	#15 (permalink)
Perm Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Clutha Valley, New Zealand Posts: 21,817	Just another chapter in the ridiciulous saga.

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