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Quota issue in South Africa costing Mickey Arthur his job?

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/southafrica/content/current/story/335415.html

Figured it deserved its own thread rather than simply going in the SA in Bangladesh tour thread.

Thoughts? I'm pretty sure we all have a universal opinion that in general, the idea of quotas (and the transformation policy, or at least how it is being implemented) in South African selection is fairly poor. I know I've read various opinions as to whether the influence of quotas is exaggerated or not, and whereby some coloured players are accused of only getting in on quotas when in fact their performances back up their selection.

However if Mickey Arthur's job as coach is under threat because of the squad he helped select for the Bangladesh tour, then there could be a serious problem.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Quotas are a cancer that is really hurting SA cricket. Simple as.

Ive been involved in the system and its a mess. Keeping a certain number of places at junior cricket, provincial cricket, franchise cricket and International cricket for non-whites isnt going to make Blacks want to abandon the sports they culturally and historically play and make them great at cricket.

The Western Cape will always produce non-white talent as it is a place where the sport is culturally important. However, Gauteng (where Jo'burg and Pretoria are located) has invested 10s of millions of rand on Black cricket development but Soccer and Boxing still dominate.

Its accurate, but maybe an oversimplification, to say the Black talent that is produced comes for the same wealthy schools with a cricket tradition that the White players come from. The huge investment in poor areas has reaped very little in terms of interest or talent. There is also no reason why it should. People play what they want, and the best athletes in a region tend to play the traditional sports.

Ive no doubt that if baseball invested heavily in the UK there would be a decent participation, but the key is that the best athletes and ball players would still be drawn to Football, Cricket, Union and League first.

Keeping spaces for non-white players weakens SA cricket as a competition, doesnt make non-white talent work hard to develop their game and drives White talent away from the game.

As always the issue has nothing to do with sport but politics and politicians that have (self confessed) no regard for the success of a team but only its demographics.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Would be slightly ironic if Mickey Arthur is sacked due to transformation issues considering only in November he was hailed as being a patron of transformation within South African cricket. He even kept his job after the World Cup for he walked the governmental line and selected a squad with coloured cricketers he had no intention of playing.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Pretty much agree with what Goughy said, and lest we forget, quotas are not only in place on the sports field but in every day life.. Our politics is overtaking us as I heard it so beautifully put a while back.. Ironic that in 95 when we lifted the rugby world cup it was seen as bringing a nation together, and now it seems to be a bit of an embaressment to the establishment that white South Africa still seems to be so succesful..
 

James_W

U19 Vice-Captain
You pick your best players, and that should be the end of the argument. South Africa has progressed as a country, this 'transformation policy' is a joke.
 

Protean

State Regular
This is ridiculous, especially coming on the heels of the government denouncing the quota system in sport after the RWC. How embarrassing for an amazing player like Herschelle Gibbs when things like this come up, it is so demeaning, and I fail to understand how Arendse can't see that.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Pick your best team, full stop, end of story!

If it contains 11 coloured players, or 11 white players, so be it. Pick your best XI for the conditions.
 

Beleg

International Regular
Quotas are merely a legal cover for racism/***ism/insert your favourite -ism here.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
This is ridiculous, especially coming on the heels of the government denouncing the quota system in sport after the RWC. How embarrassing for an amazing player like Herschelle Gibbs when things like this come up, it is so demeaning, and I fail to understand how Arendse can't see that.
Did they really? I'm pleasantly surprised..

The deadset worst thing about the quota system, is that whenever a coloured person of any special ability gets picked for a position because they deserve it (I'm thinking our new rugby coach, and guys like Monde Zondeki), they just get the token tag wrapped around them before they have even arrived at their position..
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
IMO if they want to encourage black atheletes, they should target them at the lowest level and give them scholarships to schools that have traditionally produced good players. From that point on, there should be no quotas and the best players should be selected to go forward.
 

Protean

State Regular
Did they really? I'm pleasantly surprised..
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Nov102007/sports2007111034903.asp

IMO if they want to encourage black atheletes, they should target them at the lowest level and give them scholarships to schools that have traditionally produced good players. From that point on, there should be no quotas and the best players should be selected to go forward.
The problem is they want it to be immediate, no patience at all. I think they are trying to do that too now though. Anyway CSA has announced the issue between Arendse and Arthur will be dealt with internally.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I like Arthur, and I'm glad he's sticking up for himself. The whole quota issue is ridiculous, and always has been. Unfortunately I can't see it being fixed anytime soon.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
My only suprise is that some people are still suprised by this.

One thing Im happy with is that on this site I think Ive contributed to a modicum of eye-opening on this issue.

Peoples persectives have changed (or often mellowed) on this topic.

The general opinion on here is more informed and aware than a year or 2 ago and that is a good thing.

I quote Rich as I like him. The first one is from before he went to SA and the later after he returned :)

There are no Quota players in SA's 1st XI as far as I'm concerned, Quotas don't exist in the national side.
and lest we forget, quotas are not only in place on the sports field but in every day life.. Our politics is overtaking us as I heard it so beautifully put a while back.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Haha, gotta laugh at that first quote. Bet he feels silly now :p
Why? Name me a player in the current SA starting XI who in there on skin colour and not on merit.. And by quotas on the sports field, doesn't mean the SA XI, that could mean the reams of white kids (such as the 11 year old who knocked my off stump over in Pretoria) who can't get a gig with a representative side and could be lost to the system before we even know them.. True my attitude has changed, I've become more hardline against what is going on with cricket in SA, but I still don't believe the selection malaise affects the first team, yet..
 
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Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
At the moment, Prince and Ntini are there on merit. Should Gibbs still be there? No, I don't think so, and I think that the colour of his skin has had some impact upon his prolonged prescence in the Test side.

Also, if you have four black players who are very good players you could argue that they are there on merit. That doesn't mean there isn't a quota system in place, merely that South Africa haven't needed to 'fill' it with lesser players.
 

Protean

State Regular
This makes me feel sick. I hope the players stand by their threats to withdraw from the tour, especially the players who are being pushed by the CSA. I mean really, would you want to tour when it has become public knowledge that the coach didn't think you deserved to and you are only going because of the colour of your skin?
 

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