which spin works?

[Unspinable]

Which spin at international level works best?

 

[Matt79]

In before the terminology nazis correct it to say finger-spin and wrist-spin, before Richard has gets into a tizz about the futility of finger-spin on non-conducive pitches, and people start arguing about whether Murali is a finger or wrist spinner.

 

[Top_Cat]

Neither and both.

 

[Migara]

Differs on each pitch.

 

[sirdj]

The media spin I guess.

 

[silentstriker]

Well, it's more accurate to characterize it as wrist-spin and finger-spin, as wrist spin gives you more variation is more dangerous while finger-spin is pretty much futile on non-conducive pitches, as most of the cricketers in the past can tell you (there is a reason why guys like Benaud make a point to specify that they only considered wrist spinners for their all time XI). There have been a few exceptions of course, but not Murali, since he is a wrist spinner, but there haven't been many.



How was that?

 

[Matt79]

I'd like some carefully selected links to match records from Cricinfo to really convince me however...

 

[Richard]

Why'd you need match records? Find me some Tests in the post-covered-pitches era (1970 in England, not sure when it was elsewhere) where fingerspinners have taken a bag which haven't turned all the way through.

It's no coincidence that England's last great in a huge line of fingerspinners (mostly left-arm) was Derek Underwood in 1972. Thereafter, Underwood and everyone else tried since him have been almost totally ineffective in home Tests, and have mostly ended-up being written-off as "defensive bowlers" because they can't be attacking ones.

Australia, where pitches started being covered in the 1950s-ish, haven't had a fingerspinner of note since then, apart from Ashley Mallett for a short time. And even the two they had 1930-1950 were both seamers who sometimes bowled fingerspin (Ironmonger and Johnston).

Fingerspin's time as an art that can be purveyed with success everywhere in The World has passed. And wristspin has always been an art only a tiny select few can bowl to the required standard of accuracy. We've been impossibly fortunate to have two wristspinners who do have that capability at the same time recently, in Warne and Muralitharan - we had the same in the 1930s with Grimmett and O'Reilly. In between times, the only (conventional, at least - Anil Kumble is nominally a wristspinner but he spins it far less than most) wristspinner of serious note was Richie Benaud.

 

[JBH001]

Well, it's more accurate to characterize it as wrist-spin and finger-spin, as wrist spin gives you more variation is more dangerous while finger-spin is pretty much futile on non-conducive pitches, as most of the cricketers in the past can tell you (there is a reason why guys like Benaud make a point to specify that they only considered wrist spinners for their all time XI). There have been a few exceptions of course, but not Murali, since he is a wrist spinner, but there haven't been many.

How was that?

Not bad.

Seriously though, I understand the argument viz. wrist-spin. But I think it should be characterised as over the wrist spin when differentiating it from Murali who is more of a round the wrist, or through the wrist, spin merchant. And yes, finger spinners do need some assistance from the surface, as I think does Murali, if not to the same extent as more orthodox off spinners.

 

[Richard]

Well all wristspinners will get more out of a turning pitch than a non-turning (for fingerspinners) one, obviously. But wristspinners (both orthodox ones and Murali) can turn it on virtually anything. They don't need assistance anywhere near as much as fingerspinners do.

 

[Top_Cat]

Not bad.

Seriously though, I understand the argument viz. wrist-spin. But I think it should be characterised as over the wrist spin when differentiating it from Murali who is more of a round the wrist, or through the wrist, spin merchant. And yes, finger spinners do need some assistance from the surface, as I think does Murali, if not to the same extent as more orthodox off spinners.

Murali is Jesus now?! Come on, he's good but let's not be hasty!

 

[Matt79]

Why'd you need match records? Find me some Tests in the post-covered-pitches era (1970 in England, not sure when it was elsewhere) where fingerspinners have taken a bag which haven't turned all the way through.

It's no coincidence that England's last great in a huge line of fingerspinners (mostly left-arm) was Derek Underwood in 1972. Thereafter, Underwood and everyone else tried since him have been almost totally ineffective in home Tests, and have mostly ended-up being written-off as "defensive bowlers" because they can't be attacking ones.

Australia, where pitches started being covered in the 1950s-ish, haven't had a fingerspinner of note since then, apart from Ashley Mallett for a short time. And even the two they had 1930-1950 were both seamers who sometimes bowled fingerspin (Ironmonger and Johnston).

Fingerspin's time as an art that can be purveyed with success everywhere in The World has passed. And wristspin has always been an art only a tiny select few can bowl to the required standard of accuracy. We've been impossibly fortunate to have two wristspinners who do have that capability at the same time recently, in Warne and Muralitharan - we had the same in the 1930s with Grimmett and O'Reilly. In between times, the only (conventional, at least - Anil Kumble is nominally a wristspinner but he spins it far less than most) wristspinner of serious note was Richie Benaud.

Pity the sar-chasm joke has become passe...

 

[Burgey]

Sideways spin works best, imo.

 

[Top_Cat]

Pity the sar-chasm joke has become passe...

You kidding? Richard owns property in teh sarchasm. So much so that anyone who falls into it has to pay him rent.

And yes Richard, I know it's a deliberate tactic

 

[Davey]

top spin?

 

[Richard]

Pity the sar-chasm joke has become passe...

You know me - never miss the chance to turn a joke into a serious point.

 

[krear10]

wrist/leg spin imo. more turn, even on some of the dodgier pitches. more variation - easier to fool the batsmen. and looks better lol

 

[Migara]

Wrist spin will work on any surface. But may become ineffective when batsman are really set. Fingerspin is very useful to tie batsman down.

 

[shortpitched713]

Surprised no one else has gone the Anil Kumble route.

 

[Migara]

Surprised no one else has gone the Anil Kumble route.

Bill O'Riely and Bagwhat Chandrashekar comes to my mind as wrist spinners.Derek Underwood and Phil Tufnell as finger spinners. Jayanada Warnaweera was also very akward to play because of his pace, but layed too few tests too far apart to get a comparision.