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Ponting Vs Fleming Captaincy

Who is the better Captain?

  • Ponting Ricky

    Votes: 13 34.2%
  • Fleming Stephen

    Votes: 25 65.8%

  • Total voters
    38

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Fleming by a long way.

Give Ponting any New Zealand side over the last 10 years to captain and I do not believe he would have had a better win/loss record than Fleming.
Perhaps. It would help though having a batsmen of Pontings class in the team though.
 

pasag

RTDAS
Ponting is much like Buchanan, it's hard to gauge with such a strong team under him. The real test comes from now on and how he's able to adapt with a weaker bowling line up. I do think he's underrated though, I think Fleming and MV are better but some of the stuff like 'Ponting's hopeless' is unjustified. Just look at the CH last year, side looked hopeless without him and he exudes a confidence on the field that lifts the rest of the team, imo.

Still, in leading from the front and player motivation I reckon he's the best in the world, the way he rallied the troops after Ashes 2005 culminating in 06/07 was phenomenal.
 

burr

State Vice-Captain
Fleming's captaincy has rapidly become one of the great sacred cows. He was a very good captain no doubt, but not immeasurably better than Ponting is now he's worked his way into the job.
Much of the Fleming mystique harks back to the wondrous (and for NZ it was) drawn series here several years back, especially in Perth when NZ pressed hard for a win on day 5. What a lot of people forget though is that the first two tests, Brisbane in particular, were beset by rain when Australia was looking very much like winning.
He was a good captain, but I'd put him not really better than Ponting.
I agree with that. I do think Fleming's captaincy tends to overrated slightly based on that one series, and his tactic to stack the point area to Martyn hailed as the greatest strategic decision by a leader since Churchill in the war 8-)
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Ponting's definitely better than he was 2-3 years ago. He's greatly improved, which was required when you consider the talent the tema lost in the last 12 months.

That being said, Fleming is still clearly the better captain IMO.
 

Craig

World Traveller
I agree with that. I do think Fleming's captaincy tends to overrated slightly based on that one series, and his tactic to stack the point area to Martyn hailed as the greatest strategic decision by a leader since Churchill in the war 8-)
And who actually said that? I don't think anybody with a straight face would say that.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
I agree with that. I do think Fleming's captaincy tends to overrated slightly based on that one series, and his tactic to stack the point area to Martyn hailed as the greatest strategic decision by a leader since Churchill in the war 8-)
You have to admit it was pretty cool seeing that tactic for the first time.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
You have to admit it was pretty cool seeing that tactic for the first time.
It was cooler still seeing it work time and time again, even if the poor bastard at point-cover-gully (or whatever you want to call the position) had to cope with the one shot Martyn nailed harder than anyone else.

For mine, Ponting. Fleming isn't captain.

:p

Seriously, probably Flem but the difference isn't by heaps.
 

sideshowtim

Banned
And who actually said that? I don't think anybody with a straight face would say that.
There's rarely a Fleming captaincy conversation that doesn't see that bought up. What I find ridiculous about it is that plans such as those are devised before the series even starts by a whole group of people after analysing statistics and videotape. It isn't something Fleming just did on a whim.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
There's rarely a Fleming captaincy conversation that doesn't see that bought up. What I find ridiculous about it is that plans such as those are devised before the series even starts by a whole group of people after analysing statistics and videotape. It isn't something Fleming just did on a whim.
But that's how it goes with cricket. The captain gets all the credit, and often gets all the criticism.

People credited Vaughan for his short (very short) cover catching fieldsman to Hayden in the Ashes. For all we know bloody Ian Bell came up with it, but Vaughan as skipper will get the credit.

And I'm sure the same goes for Ponting who has gotten credit for things that others would have thought up.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Fleming by a decent bit for mine.

But a few things...

1, Raghav, c'mon mate, public polls!!!

2, fielding positions is one of the most hopelessly overrated things in cricket. If all you needed to do to get Damien Martyn out was to post two gullies he'd not have averaged 47 in Test-cricket. Also, captains should never get much credit as if you do gain something by putting fielders in the right place it's those who do the analysis (mostly head-coaches in my experience) who deserve the credit. Certainly probably more than one person.

3, Ponting is an absurdly over-criticised captain and always has been, especially over here. FFS, in his first 2 series he conquered not one but two near-unconquerable countries in Sri Lanka and India. Sure, he's made some poor decisions (fielding first at Edgbaston, bowling Lewis for 10 overs in that ODI, and probably a few more less obvious ones) which have proved costly. So, I dare say, did Mike Brearley, Warrick Armstrong, Imran Khan and Ian Chappell. Ponting has always been disproportionately criticised for his errors. And sure, there are times his diplomacy leaves a little to be desired and he can be a bit too heat-of-the-moment. But really, he doesn't deserve half the criticism he gets, at least over here.

4, it's almost impossible to make a mess even as a poor captain if you've got sides - bowling-attacks especially - of the calibre Ponting pretty much always has. I rarely tend to rate captains with such superlative sides as anything in particular, unless they're obvious geniu.

5, Fleming is a very, very fine captain, that much is obvious from little day-to-day things, not the silly things that have been bigged-up disproportionately (most notably that series in 2001\02 and the Martyn fielding positions which have been mentioned). He's terrific at reacting quickly and spotting field-changes which need to be made (and not made); he's great at manipulating things so that sometimes even wholly average bowlers look, if not good, then less poor than they should. He almost never loses his cool, which is one big area he has way over Ponting.

6, Fleming could easily be New Zealand's best captain ever.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Fleming. You cannot argue with being third in the world in ODIs when you have the bowling might of Martin, Gillespie, Mason, Franklin and worst of all, Iain O'Brien.

If Fleming had been skipper in SA and Aus this year we would probably still have lost but they would have found it alot harder than they did.
 
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Raghav

International Vice-Captain
Fleming. You cannot argue with being tird in the world in ODIs when you have the bowling might of Martin, Gillespie, Mason, Franklin and worst of all, Ian O'Brien.

If Fleming had been skipper in SA and Aus this year we would probably still have lost but they would have found it alot harder than they did.
Absolutely right to the point
 

Flem274*

123/5
Who is currently captaining?

Nuff said.
Haha shocking call. Never mind Fleming is winding down his international career and starting Vettori/McCullums reign whilst Fleming and Bond are still there to provide some talent and of course, leadership. Also forgetting typical NZC/Bracewell politics and descisions. Fleming jumped before he was pushed.
 

Craig

World Traveller
There's rarely a Fleming captaincy conversation that doesn't see that bought up. What I find ridiculous about it is that plans such as those are devised before the series even starts by a whole group of people after analysing statistics and videotape. It isn't something Fleming just did on a whim.
I meant comparing him to Churchill.
 

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