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Thread: 98/99 Feast or Famine?

  1. #1
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    98/99 Feast or Famine?

    I wanted to have a look at Test debuts for 1998 and 1999 as these are players coming up to 10 years as Test cricketers and should be in their prime.

    Now I dont know if it is too different to other periods (as I havent looked) but what struck me was that there was a lot of ordinary cricketers with a few very good ones standing out.

    There appears to be little depth in the quality after the initial 'star players'.

    Is this potential 'lost generation' of decent-good Test roles players that should be in their prime right now a reason for the supposed current lack of Test quality?

    Code:
    Pakistan																						
    151	Fazl-e-Akbar		South	Africa	v	Pakistan	at	Durban,		1997/98			
    152	Mohammad	Yousuf	South	Africa	v	Pakistan	at	Durban,		1997/98		
    153	Shahid	Afridi		Pakistan	v	Australia	at	Karachi,	1998/99			
    154	Shakeel	Ahmed	snr	Pakistan	v	Australia	at	Karachi,	1998/99		
    155	Naved	Ashraf		Pakistan	v	Zimbabwe	at	Lahore,		1998/99			
    156	Wajahatullah	Wasti	India		v	Pakistan	at	Kolkata,	1998/99			
    											
    NZ																						
    205	PJ	Wiseman		Sri	Lanka	v	New	Zealand	at	Colombo	(RPS),	1998
    206	MD	Bell		New	Zealand	v	India		at	Wellington,	1998/99		
    											
    WI																				
    222	RD	Jacobs		South	Africa	v	West	Indies	at	Johannesburg,		1998/99	
    223	D	Ganga		South	Africa	v	West	Indies	at	Durban,			1998/99	
    224	RD	King		South	Africa	v	West	Indies	at	Centurion,		1998/99	
    225	PT	Collins		West	Indies	v	Australia	at	Port	of	Spain,	1998/99
    226	DRE	Joseph		West	Indies	v	Australia	at	Port	of	Spain,	1998/99
    227	S	Ragoonath	West	Indies	v	Australia	at	Port	of	Spain,	1998/99
    228	NO	Perry		West	Indies	v	Australia	at	Kingston,		1998/99		
    229	LA	Roberts		West	Indies	v	Australia	at	Kingston,		1998/99		
    230	CD	Collymore	West	Indies	v	Australia	at	St	John's,		1998/99	
    231	RL	Powell		New	Zealand	v	West	Indies	at	Hamilton,		1999/00	
    											
    											
    Aus																						
    374	SCG	MacGill		Australia	v	South	Africa	at	Adelaide,		1997/98		
    375	GR	Robertson	India		v	Australia	at	Chennai,		1997/98			
    376	P	Wilson		India		v	Australia	at	Kolkata,		1997/98			
    377	AC	Dale		India		v	Australia	at	Bangalore,		1997/98			
    378	DS	Lehmann		India		v	Australia	at	Bangalore,		1997/98			
    379	CR	Miller		Pakistan	v	Australia	at	Rawalpindi,		1998/99			
    380	MJ	Nicholson	Australia	v	England		at	Melbourne,		1998/99			
    381	AC	Gilchrist	Australia	v	Pakistan	at	Brisbane,		1999/00			
    382	SA	Muller		Australia	v	Pakistan	at	Brisbane,		1999/00			
    383	B	Lee		Australia	v	India		at	Melbourne,		1999/00			
    											
    SA																						
    268	HD	Ackerman	South	Africa	v	Pakistan	at	Durban,			1997/98		
    269	M	Ntini		South	Africa	v	Sri	Lanka	at	Cape	Town,		1997/98
    270	GFJ	Liebenberg	South	Africa	v	Sri	Lanka	at	Centurion,		1997/98	
    271	S	Elworthy	England		v	South	Africa	at	Nottingham,		1998		
    272	DJ	Terbrugge	South	Africa	v	West	Indies	at	Johannesburg,		1998/99	
    273	HH	Dippenaar	South	Africa	v	Zimbabwe	at	Bloemfontein,		1999/00		
    274	M	Hayward		South	Africa	v	England		at	Port	Elizabeth,	1999/00	
    											
    India																						
    214	Harvinder	Singh		India	v	Australia	at	Chennai,	1997/98			
    215	Harbhajan	Singh		India	v	Australia	at	Bangalore,	1997/98			
    216	AB	Agarkar			Zimbabwe	v	India	at	Harare,		1998/99			
    217	RR	Singh			Zimbabwe	v	India	at	Harare,		1998/99			
    218	R	Singh			New	Zealand	v	India	at	Hamilton,	1998/99		
    219	S	Ramesh			India	v	Pakistan	at	Chennai,	1998/99			
    220	A	Nehra			Sri	Lanka	v	India	at	Colombo	(SSC),	1998/99	
    221	DJ	Gandhi			India	v	New	Zealand	at	Mohali,		1999/00		
    222	MSK	Prasad			India	v	New	Zealand	at	Mohali,		1999/00		
    223	R	Vijay	Bharadwaj	India	v	New	Zealand	at	Mohali,		1999/00	
    224	HH	Kanitkar		Australia	v	India	at	Melbourne,	1999/00			
    											
    Eng																						
    589	SP	James		England		v	South	Africa	at	Lord's,	1998		
    590	AF	Giles		England		v	South	Africa	at	Manchester,	1998		
    591	A	Flintoff	England		v	South	Africa	at	Nottingham,	1998		
    592	AJ	Tudor		Australia	v	England		at	Perth,		1998/99			
    593	WK	Hegg		Australia	v	England		at	Melbourne,	1998/99			
    594	A	Habib		England	v	New	Zealand		at	Birmingham,	1999		
    595	CMW	Read		England	v	New	Zealand		at	Birmingham,	1999		
    596	ESH	Giddins		England	v	New	Zealand		at	The	Oval,	1999	
    597	DL	Maddy		England	v	New	Zealand		at	The	Oval,	1999	
    598	CJ	Adams		South	Africa	v	England		at	Johannesburg,	1999/00		
    599	GM	Hamilton	South	Africa	v	England		at	Johannesburg,	1999/00		
    600	MP	Vaughan		South	Africa	v	England		at	Johannesburg,	1999/00	
    
    Sri Lanka
    71	CM	Bandara		Sri	Lanka	v	New	Zealand	at	Colombo	(RPS),	1998
    72	MRCN	Bandaratilleke	Sri	Lanka	v	New	Zealand	at	Colombo	(RPS),	1998
    73	ASA	Perera		England		v	Sri	Lanka	at	The	Oval,	1998	
    74	PDRL	Perera		Sri	Lanka	v	India		at	Colombo	(SSC),	1998/99	
    75	KEA	Upashantha	Sri	Lanka	v	India		at	Colombo	(SSC),	1998/99	
    76	DA	Gunawardene	Pakistan	v	Sri	Lanka	at	Lahore,		1998/99		
    77	UDU	Chandana	Pakistan	v	Sri	Lanka	at	Dhaka,		1998/99		
    78	HMRKB	Herath		Sri	Lanka	v	Australia	at	Galle,		1999		
    79	SI	de	Saram	Zimbabwe	v	Sri	Lanka	at	Bulawayo,	1999/00	
    80	TM	Dilshan		Zimbabwe	v	Sri	Lanka	at	Bulawayo,	1999/00		
    81	IS	Gallage		Zimbabwe	v	Sri	Lanka	at	Bulawayo,	1999/00
    Last edited by Goughy; 11-01-2008 at 08:19 AM.
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  2. #2
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    That's tough to say. However, I'd like to know if 98/99 were unique in anyway - most players who make their debut don't go on to become stars. If each team brings one new player in every year, and he sticks around for long term, I think that's a pretty good year.
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  3. #3
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Several of those seem to conform to patterns familiar - India with a lot of seamers and openers for instance.

    But the answer to the question is, I really don't know what it tells us. There are many players on there who I'd simply say never had any chance of success: Wiseman is a name who sticks-out. This, I'd not imagine, is particularly unusual - nothing players are picked for international cricket, it's a sad reality. Equally, players who looked good at the domestic level sometimes look extremely poor at the international level. Equally, there's always a few players who don't get a fair crack of the whip, for many reasons.

    I'd go through those on a case-by-case basis, but really CBA.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Mister Wright's Avatar
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    Pretty funny that Lee was the 383 player for Australia almost 10 years ago and there is yet to be the 400 player for Australia.
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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Wright View Post
    Pretty funny that Lee was the 383 player for Australia almost 10 years ago and there is yet to be the 400 player for Australia.
    Quite amazing really.

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    School Boy/Girl Captain skipper's Avatar
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    Is Naved Ashraf from that list any relation to the Naeem Ashraf, PCB CEO now?

  7. #7
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Always thought Naved Ashraf was the PCB Chairman TBH.

    These Urdu-English (non-)translations...

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    International Vice-Captain Jungle Jumbo's Avatar
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    Haha, I don't even know who Shakeel Ahmed snr, Robertson and Wilson are...

    Yeah, there appears to be a lot of mediocre talent. Teams were more unsettled even 10 years ago however, with domestic performances counting for a lot more than they do now. There is probably as much a case for chance causing so many poor players to debut in the same year as anything. It would be interesting to compare it with other years though.

    Interesting that those batch of England players were the last before central contracts. The amount of obviously poor players (hindsight being a great virtue) appears to have reduced almost immediately. Many of those players would never get anywhere near the international game these days.

  9. #9
    International Captain Migara's Avatar
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    Among SL players, TM Dilshan has become a star, among top five fieldsmen among current cricketers. Upul Chandana had a good career and retired from cricket. Bandara and Herath are in fringes, especially the latter is a good performer in FCC. Murali has blocked most of their chances playing for SL and Jayasuriya as the 2nd spinner makes their chances near zero. Since Jaya has retired, now the stage os open for a second spinner.

    Avishka Gunawardane - hit or miss fellow. Had some success, but too loose against good fast bowlers

    Indika de Saram - has matured in a big way and now threatening for a comeback to seize Chamara Silva's place in the side

    Niroshan Banaratillake - Had a lot of disciplinary problems and it started telling on his game. Possessed one of the best arm balls I have seen from a finger spinner.

    Indika Gallage - perceived as "too slow" to open bowling (around 75mph). But selectors were ****ed up so badly that they forgot that this bloke can move the ball of the pitch both ways some times one and half feet! He looked like a quick spinner when in full flow. Still bowls very well in FCC, since age has got better of him, now he's really slow.

    Eric Upashantha - This guy could bowl banana swingers. But his control was not the best. Now retired and works as a coach

    Suresh Perera - thought as the next big thing od SL cricket. A lively out swing bowler and a sweet hitter. His action was dodgy and the remedial work did not sort the problem. Plays FCC as a lower order batsman now.

    Ruchira Perera - Quick left arm seamer, but he chucks. Has absolutely no chance of a comeback.

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    Interestingly, a whole stack of openers in that list, and not one who has actually made something of himself at test level, unless you consider Michael Vaughan an opener. Bell, Ganga, Ramesh, Dippenaar amongst others.
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    International Regular Beleg's Avatar
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    it would be interesting to compare this with 89/90 and 90/91.

    of the top of my mind, for pakistan alone,


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  13. #13
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Jumbo View Post
    Haha, I don't even know who Shakeel Ahmed snr, Robertson and Wilson are...
    It's best that way. Only Paul Wilson was a bowler of much note, and even he wasn't as good as I'd thought until 6 months ago or so.
    Interesting that those batch of England players were the last before central contracts. The amount of obviously poor players (hindsight being a great virtue) appears to have reduced almost immediately. Many of those players would never get anywhere near the international game these days.
    Umm, Chris Schofield, Usman Afzaal, James Ormond, Richard Dawson, Stephen Harmison, Anthony McGrath, Kabir Ali, Gareth Batty, Geraint Jones, Liam Plunkett, Ian Blackwell, Sajid Mahmood, Matthew Prior, Ravinder Bopara (to date)? Heck, Stuart Broad so far. Those cases not bear any similarity?

  14. #14
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migara View Post
    Among SL players, TM Dilshan has become a star, among top five fieldsmen among current cricketers. Upul Chandana had a good career and retired from cricket. Bandara and Herath are in fringes, especially the latter is a good performer in FCC. Murali has blocked most of their chances playing for SL and Jayasuriya as the 2nd spinner makes their chances near zero. Since Jaya has retired, now the stage os open for a second spinner.

    Avishka Gunawardane - hit or miss fellow. Had some success, but too loose against good fast bowlers

    Indika de Saram - has matured in a big way and now threatening for a comeback to seize Chamara Silva's place in the side

    Niroshan Banaratillake - Had a lot of disciplinary problems and it started telling on his game. Possessed one of the best arm balls I have seen from a finger spinner.

    Indika Gallage - perceived as "too slow" to open bowling (around 75mph). But selectors were ****ed up so badly that they forgot that this bloke can move the ball of the pitch both ways some times one and half feet! He looked like a quick spinner when in full flow. Still bowls very well in FCC, since age has got better of him, now he's really slow.

    Eric Upashantha - This guy could bowl banana swingers. But his control was not the best. Now retired and works as a coach

    Suresh Perera - thought as the next big thing od SL cricket. A lively out swing bowler and a sweet hitter. His action was dodgy and the remedial work did not sort the problem. Plays FCC as a lower order batsman now.

    Ruchira Perera - Quick left arm seamer, but he chucks. Has absolutely no chance of a comeback.
    Interesting stuff there, particularly sad to hear about Niroshan (CBA spelling his surname ), who I thought looked quite good on the odd occasion I saw him. Never knew where Suresh Perera had disappeared to either. Ruchira only ever appeared to be a chucker once out of the 7 or 8 times I saw him - you reckon he chucks all the time?

    Interesting too to hear about de Saram. One of the worst batsmen I'd ever seen until recently, would be interesting to see how much difference there was should he return to international level.

  15. #15
    State Vice-Captain gettingbetter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    It's best that way. Only Paul Wilson was a bowler of much note, and even he wasn't as good as I'd thought until 6 months ago or so.

    Umm, Chris Schofield, Usman Afzaal, James Ormond, Richard Dawson, Stephen Harmison, Anthony McGrath, Kabir Ali, Gareth Batty, Geraint Jones, Liam Plunkett, Ian Blackwell, Sajid Mahmood, Matthew Prior, Ravinder Bopara (to date)? Heck, Stuart Broad so far. Those cases not bear any similarity?
    Bit unfair to some in that list Rich. But I think what the other poster is saying is that the likes of those CC incumbents who average no more than 35 would be selected in the team - from the top of my head, Lathwell, Maynard, the Hollioakes, and co.

    With the names you mentioned, there is probably a good argument that can be made why most of those players were selected, probably not so much for the guys who have played less than 5 Tests though.

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