Martyn OUT

[Top_Cat]

Besides again he needed to do more this year it's all about being in form at the right time.

More? Blewwy was the top run-scorer for both the Pura Cup and ING Cup competitions. What more could he have done? HELLO Mcfly..............

If you said he's too old, then fine but on stats, there's little more he could have done relative to the rest of the batsmen in the comp.

Realistically, Clarke won't get a game in the main side and shouldn't for a while yet. He needs another solid season before he'll be considered. His call-up is more to do with giving him a 'taste' for life at the top level, something which virtually all of the players listed previously have all had. It's nothing new.

It does make his opinion more valid because he gives a varied view, never clouded by the green and gold...

Nah, Andre's opinion is clouded but more by Blue, eh Andre?

As a serious Test option, if either Lehmann or Love were injured, I'd still pick Katich over Clarke and that's completely disregarding stats. I still have a soft spot for Michael Slater too. Either way, if I were a selector, there's NO WAY I'd pick Clarke in the Tests it's far too early and there's a few technical issues (not fully exploited by interstate bowlers yet) that he'd have to work on.

And anyway, who cares if he has a 'good 15 years' at the top. Would you prefer he has, say, 10 years averaging 45+ or 15 years averaging 35+ because he was picked too early?

 

[Top_Cat]

Just like to add that I think Jimmy Maher is more deserving of a Test chance than Clarke right now too.

 

[age_master]

see my prev post about mahers 4d stats for this year


Rik, at least i have the ability to say all i have to in one post not like 6


hahaha interstats bowlesr are better than most international bowlers - especuially those uin ENGLAND



ohh and lehman averaged over 80 for at least 2 years


finally, all those pommies who have nt seen clarke play really dont know what they are talking about and are full of crap, which has been proven by the way they want maher in the test side after he averaged well below al the top batsmen

maybe you are just jealous that you dont have any young batsmen that are anywhere near as good as him

 

[Top_Cat]

1) Your post does little to actually enhance the debate. It's just inflammatory. Try to avoid that in the future.

2) Post Maher's 2002-2003 stats all you want, he had a bad season. Every batsman does and Michael Clarke sure will. This doesn't mean he's suddenly lost the ability which saw him average 67.81 last year and 59.12 the year before in Pura Cup competitions. He's batted consistently well for the last few years in both ODI and Pura Cup comps and is more deserving of a Test spot than Clarke who has only played one full season of FC cricket.

No-one is doubting Clarke's ability with the bat but he's got to wait his turn like everyone else. As has been pointed out before on many occasions, even players arguably more gifted than he (Ponting, Martyn) had to play at least two full seasons of FC cricket before they were picked. And even then, their games weren't sufficiently developed enough to succeed at the top level without a lot of work. Martyn didn't cement his place in the Aussie side until around late 2000 having made his debut in 1992 and Ponting didn't secure his place until around 1999 having made his debut in 1996. What makes you think Clarke will be any different?

So in my opinion and has been shown on countless occasions, pure ability means jack in terms of performance and whilst he looks a great prospect, Clarke has a long way to go before he's Test quality and his technical faults WILL get get found out, just like the others I've mentioned.

His measure as a player will be how well he bounces back from something like that and it remains to be seen yet whether he is able to play under top-level pressure ergo, he's simply NOT READY for Test cricket yet.

 

[The Argonaut]

Clarke hasn't been selected just to see what it's like in the Australian team. If there is one injury to a batsman then he will be there and will play.

I also think he is a little underdone and should've had another season before being selected. His form towards the end of the season wasn't great. Blewett and Maher would have been better selections as they play pace very well. Clarke will play for Australia for a long time. I have no doubt.

At least the selectors didn't do a Peter Taylor and pick the guy from Western Australia as the replacement.

Martin Love deserves the move to no. 4 and will do well. Lehmann may feel a bit perturbed as he might think that he would get a better opportunity to make a big score at 4 but Love is the better option.

 

[age_master]

ricky ponting made his test debut at age 20 - clarke is 21, ponting is now the vice captain - he played FC cricket at a younger age cause hes tasmanian and there are less players there

Martyn debuted at the age of 21


clarke is 21

why should he not get the same oportunites as these players, one of whom is incredibly similar in style to him (ponting) and the other who cant pull

also, remember that ODI that he played this year, at the top level and under a little pressure, 39 runs @SR of 80, pretty descant level

 

[marc71178]

hahaha interstats bowlesr are better than most international bowlers - especuially those uin ENGLAND

Oh yes, as that attack he scored his only good recent score against showed - Kasprowicz (who's been poor over in England), Noffke (who looks good, granted), and then 2 bowlers who's averages are 37 and 50+!

ohh and lehman averaged over 80 for at least 2 years

Nope, he only did that for one season. The figures cannot be more clear.

Debut in 1997 - average 63.
In 1998 - 60.56.
In 2000 - 67.13.
In 2001 - 83.29.
In 2002 - 66.82.

Overall he has averaged about 67.76 - good, but others have done that, and it's nowhere near the mythical 80+ you keep quoting.

maybe you are just jealous that you dont have any young batsmen that are anywhere near as good as him

Au Contraire, we have good batsmen coming through, but we don't feel the need to claim they're world beaters before they've been given a chance...

For instance Ian Bell has pretty similar figures to Clarke in terms of matches and averages and is a year younger.

 

[marc71178]

ricky ponting made his test debut at age 20 - clarke is 21, ponting is now the vice captain - he played FC cricket at a younger age cause hes tasmanian and there are less players there

Yes, and he's been a success and remained in the team.

Martyn debuted at the age of 21

played 7 matches and then didn't feature again for 6 years.

clarke is 21

why should he not get the same oportunites as these players, one of whom is incredibly similar in style to him (ponting) and the other who cant pull

Well based on that poll of 2 he's got a 50% chance of being a success - however since he's less experienced (that is the key thing here, experience, not age, then that 50% may be less.

also, remember that ODI that he played this year, at the top level and under a little pressure, 39 runs @SR of 80, pretty descant level

Will you give up talking about one day Cricket - this is TEST cricket, not crash bang wallop stuff.

Interesting how now it suits your purpose the English attack is good and giving him pressure, yet most of the time it's rubbish!

Also, I'd say coming in with your side needing 60 in more than 16 overs with 1 experieced man there, and one still to come in, in a game when you're team had already qualified for the next stage, and your opponents 2 main bowlers had been bowled out is hardly the greatest pressure.

 

[Eclipse]

Rik you talk the bigest pile of crap somtimes.

If you are being honest then you cant never have souch a thing as a more valid opinion certainly a more though through and realistic maybe.

I might be wrong but I will stick with the majority here and say I think Clark deserves his selection you can argue all you want but the fact remains he was selected and if you dont like that go and crap on about it to the Aussie selectors I personaly regard there opinions higher than yours.


Any way I would know more about the Australian players than you end of story.

 

[age_master]

ok, sorry bad link on cricinfo previously??

Aussie domestic bowlers

Kaspa - who everyone reakons is great - sunno why
Noffke
Bracken
S Brant - playing county this year so you can have a look at him
S Clark - mcgraths understudy
Williams
Jo ANgel
Paul wilson
bichel
dale
fleming
dawes


and more - now any of these guys could walk into any county cricket 1st XI and take loads of wickets

ian bell - lets see - take his average down 10 (county cricketer) to directly compare with clarkes - 24, in both forms - even without taking them down this guy averages less than clarke

mate he would not even make the NSW side - let alone get anywhere near th aussie side

ohh and until youve seen clarke play, you cant really understand why us aussies think hes so good

 

[Tim]

Ok guys you may aswell finish this argument, theres only one way this will be resolved and thats how Clarke plays when & if he gets his chance against the West Indies.

 

[Eclipse]

Hopefully This will be my last post in this thread.

Marc & Rik can you please just forget about everything I have said and just accept my thoughts and I will yours.

 

[age_master]

i doubt he will get a chance in the test series but he is a good chance of staying there for the ODI's and if he does he will get a game or 2 in there

 

[marc71178]

and more - now any of these guys could walk into any county cricket 1st XI and take loads of wickets

Oh right, so how come half of that list aren't playing CC this year then?

ian bell - lets see - take his average down 10 (county cricketer) to directly compare with clarkes - 24, in both forms - even without taking them down this guy averages less than clarke

And why should we take it down by 10, just because you say so?

What a ridiculous theory, just take 10 off his average because he's English.

 

[Eclipse]

I dont think there is any point compairing there avrages at this stage of there early carears.

 

[marc71178]

I might be wrong but I will stick with the majority here

Right, views expressed in this thread:

For - Age, Eclipse, Broncoman, Tamara, Tim

Against - T_C, Andre, Rik, Me, Mr Mxyzptlk, The Argonaut

That looks like about equal to me, and in no way is there a majority!

 

[age_master]

well noffke is, williams and bracken were not allowed by the ACB (or state authoriteis i dont think) and the rest were left in favor of batsmen and all orunders or some of the best bowlers in the world like Saqulain, Shoaib etc



yeah you have to lower english averages by about 10 - if not more - lehmann averages just ovber 10 higher in england, hussey averages like 5 gazillion higher in england (well at least 30) stuart law averages 20 jhigher and the list goes on and on

 

[Tim]

FFS guys, continue this on msn or something.

 

[Eclipse]

I was talking about the people I know and Australian's in general.

Most Australian cricket followers that I know seem to think he is ready for the next step any way.

I would not like to participate in this argument any more so if you have anything more to say to me then send me a message.

 

[marc71178]

well noffke is, williams and bracken were not allowed by the ACB (or state authoriteis i dont think) and the rest were left in favor of batsmen and all orunders or some of the best bowlers in the world like Saqulain, Shoaib etc

So when you said any of them would walk into any English County side, you were actually talking rubbish then.

yeah you have to lower english averages by about 10 - if not more - lehmann averages just ovber 10 higher in england, hussey averages like 5 gazillion higher in england (well at least 30) stuart law averages 20 jhigher and the list goes on and on

Yet another high sample of stats there - good to see you fully research what you type.

And how do you account for the likes of Cox and Kasprowicz who actually did worse last season than their career average?