Could Graeme Smith break all captaincy records?

Richard · 27-12-2007, 07:07 AM

Smith is currently captaining South Africa for the 50th time(inclusive of substandard sides). He has not yet reached his 27th birthday, and as such could easily play Tests for another 10 years - maybe even longer if things were to go well. By the end of this series against West Indies (provided he's fit for all games) he'll be 1 behind the SA record of Hansie Cronje. Before this season's out - again given full fitness - he'll be beyond the tallies of Cronje, Michael Atherton, Arjuna Ranatunga and Stephen Waugh. Clive Lloyd and Allan Border remain a fair way ahead yet on 74 and 93, and the man I had assumed would break all records long before Smith - Stephen Fleming - has now been stalled on 80 (inclusive of substandard sides).

So will Smith last to be the first to captain 100 Tests? Or will someone replace him? If so, having been appointed at 22, what would the feeling be then?

Mr Mxyzptlk · 27-12-2007, 07:09 AM

His age has very little to do with it unless South Africa keeps performing under him.

gettingbetter · 27-12-2007, 07:11 AM

I saw the pre-game chat about Smith captaining his 50th Test, it is quite amazing, I think he's only played 8 Tests as a non-captain. But with Smith, I'm not too sure, as you pointed out, time is definetely on his side, but his form over the last two years has been falling away - if it dips below 40, watch out, especially considering how high it once was.

Things in his favour though is that he is actually a good captain, his tactics are right and he does try to go for a result (as seen in the Sydney Test). But with the SA selectors and their treatment of Pollock, I think they could push Smith whenever they like, in saying that, SA really do lack batting depth especially at the top of the order.

Dissector · 27-12-2007, 07:14 AM

All captaincy records? What about the records for test victories and series victories?

Goughy · 27-12-2007, 07:16 AM

hmm, actually quite interesting. If things continue the way they are then he looks dead set to break 100 Tests as captain. However, one thing we know is that things often do not stay the same.

A few bad series with SA losing and a further decline in his batting will see him ousted. However, if that doesnt happen he could continue for a long time.

Im a believer that he was originally brought in as a mere pup to captain as after Cronje and Pollock the powers that be wanted a politically weak and indebted captain. This allowed the more controversial aspects of SA selection to be implimented without having to clash with a powerful domestic figure as captain.

As he has got older, he has increasingly started to assert himself and is no longer able to be manipulated or ignored.

This change in his maturity and clout may mean people think its time for him to move aside. Also bearing in mind there is a large lobby wanting Prince as captain.

gettingbetter · 27-12-2007, 07:22 AM

I've heard about the ones grooming Prince too, but it doesn't seem likely as long as Smith is in the team I think.

Richard · 27-12-2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dissector

All captaincy records? What about the records for test victories and series victories?

If a captain is given enough chances with a decent team, he can break these. I certainly reckon Smith could. Who knows, indeed, how South Africa will be faring in 2013 (when Smith will still be just 31 years old)?

Regarding Prince's captaincy - he too is rarely more than 2 or 3 bad Tests away from having his place questioned. Neil McKenzie is another we hear about being highly regarded in captaincy stakes.

If neither of these are in the Test team in, say, 2 years time this wouldn't be a problem, of course.

Richard · 27-12-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk

His age has very little to do with it unless South Africa keeps performing under him.

Obviously, but both are clear prerequistites in order to keep on captaining.

Mr Mxyzptlk · 27-12-2007, 08:11 AM

My point being that his age is not the major factor here. A big factor, yes, but not the major factor as you were suggesting.

Richard · 27-12-2007, 08:13 AM

Were he now aged 35 years old it'd not be possible.

That is all I suggest. Really.

jammay123 · 27-12-2007, 08:31 AM

he might have some trouble making it as captain for another year if they lose serieses against the west indies and then england which is what im banking on.

TT Boy · 27-12-2007, 05:27 PM

Tough 2008 (India away, England away, Australia away) for Smith and if South Africa fail to win their current series with the West Indies the pressure will be on. His got friends in high places but he needs runs and at least some encouraging performances by his team in 08 for him to keep the captaincy.

TT Boy · 27-12-2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goughy

hmm, actually quite interesting. If things continue the way they are then he looks dead set to break 100 Tests as captain. However, one thing we know is that things often do not stay the same.

A few bad series with SA losing and a further decline in his batting will see him ousted. However, if that doesnt happen he could continue for a long time.

Im a believer that he was originally brought in as a mere pup to captain as after Cronje and Pollock the powers that be wanted a politically weak and indebted captain. This allowed the more controversial aspects of SA selection to be implimented without having to clash with a powerful domestic figure as captain.

As he has got older, he has increasingly started to assert himself and is no longer able to be manipulated or ignored.

This change in his maturity and clout may mean people think its time for him to move aside. Also bearing in mind there is a large lobby wanting Prince as captain.

Prince has fallen out of favour with CSA after resigning as chairman of the players association and then discussing quotas, his not on anyone’s Christmas cards lists with the top brass and didn't help his cause by not wanting to play in Ntini's benefit.

FRAZ · 27-12-2007, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goughy

Im a believer that he was originally brought in as a mere pup to captain as after Cronje and Pollock the powers that be wanted a politically weak and indebted captain. This allowed the more controversial aspects of SA selection to be implimented without having to clash with a powerful domestic figure as captain.

.

Agree!

Craig · 28-12-2007, 12:23 AM

Is Prince a good captain at all? Or is it just some politically motivated act?

27-12-2007, 07:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Mr Mxyzptlk Request Your Custom Title Now! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Trinidad and Tobago (Trinidad) Posts: 36,795	His age has very little to do with it unless South Africa keeps performing under him. __________________ Sreesanth said, "Next ball he was beaten and I said, 'is this the King Charles Lara? Who is this impostor, moving around nervously? I should have kept my mouth shut for the next ball - mind you, it was a length ball - Lara just pulled it over the church beyond the boundary! He is a true legend." The Blog The Portfolio The...er...Twitter

27-12-2007, 07:16 AM	#5 (permalink)
Goughy International Coach Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: All Over Posts: 14,638	hmm, actually quite interesting. If things continue the way they are then he looks dead set to break 100 Tests as captain. However, one thing we know is that things often do not stay the same. A few bad series with SA losing and a further decline in his batting will see him ousted. However, if that doesnt happen he could continue for a long time. Im a believer that he was originally brought in as a mere pup to captain as after Cronje and Pollock the powers that be wanted a politically weak and indebted captain. This allowed the more controversial aspects of SA selection to be implimented without having to clash with a powerful domestic figure as captain. As he has got older, he has increasingly started to assert himself and is no longer able to be manipulated or ignored. This change in his maturity and clout may mean people think its time for him to move aside. Also bearing in mind there is a large lobby wanting Prince as captain. __________________ If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there is bound to be edits West Robham Rabid Wolves Caedere lemma quod eat lemma Happy Birthday! (easier than using Birthday threads) Email and MSN- Goughy at cricketmail dot net

27-12-2007, 08:31 AM	#11 (permalink)
jammay123 State 12th Man Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: london Posts: 730	he might have some trouble making it as captain for another year if they lose serieses against the west indies and then england which is what im banking on. __________________ ENGLAND CB SERIES CHAMPS FUTURE WORLD CUP CHAMPS(2011) AND IN 2009 THE ASHES HOLDERS the official England 'patriotic cheerleader' Proud supporter of the England national cricket, football and rugby teams and of TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR FOOTBALL CLUBS Msn: jammay123@hotmail.co.uk come on CW BLUE

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27-12-2007, 07:11 AM	#3 (permalink)
gettingbetter State Vice-Captain Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Down By The River Posts: 1,458	I saw the pre-game chat about Smith captaining his 50th Test, it is quite amazing, I think he's only played 8 Tests as a non-captain. But with Smith, I'm not too sure, as you pointed out, time is definetely on his side, but his form over the last two years has been falling away - if it dips below 40, watch out, especially considering how high it once was. Things in his favour though is that he is actually a good captain, his tactics are right and he does try to go for a result (as seen in the Sydney Test). But with the SA selectors and their treatment of Pollock, I think they could push Smith whenever they like, in saying that, SA really do lack batting depth especially at the top of the order.

27-12-2007, 07:14 AM	#4 (permalink)
Dissector International Debutant Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: India Posts: 2,101	All captaincy records? What about the records for test victories and series victories?

27-12-2007, 07:22 AM	#6 (permalink)
gettingbetter State Vice-Captain Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Down By The River Posts: 1,458	I've heard about the ones grooming Prince too, but it doesn't seem likely as long as Smith is in the team I think.

27-12-2007, 08:11 AM	#9 (permalink)
Mr Mxyzptlk Request Your Custom Title Now! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Trinidad and Tobago (Trinidad) Posts: 36,795	My point being that his age is not the major factor here. A big factor, yes, but not the major factor as you were suggesting.

27-12-2007, 08:13 AM	#10 (permalink)
Richard Cricket Web Staff Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 2005 Posts: 80,407	Were he now aged 35 years old it'd not be possible. That is all I suggest. Really.

27-12-2007, 05:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
TT Boy Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: . Posts: 16,321	Tough 2008 (India away, England away, Australia away) for Smith and if South Africa fail to win their current series with the West Indies the pressure will be on. His got friends in high places but he needs runs and at least some encouraging performances by his team in 08 for him to keep the captaincy.

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