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NZ future players

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Well NZ seem to have a growing list of future batsmen.

Theres already Ryder, Fulton, Nicol, Papps & McIntosh and now this week Northern Districts opener Nick Horsley scored 159 & Central Districts opener Jamie How scored 163*

McMillan & especially Lou Vincent are going to be under hell pressure to keep their spots for the Sri Lankan tour if these guys continue to prosper.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Well on the basis of today's performance...some of those younger guys must surely be on the running to replace guys like McMillan, Vincent & Harris.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Harris is too valuable a player to leave out. He's out of form but he's a very good player.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
This needs to be looked at in context though.

What sort of calibre is there in the bowling at the moment?
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Well I would presume that bowlers like Shayne O'Connor, Ian Butler & Michael Mason will be in the reckoning for the Sri Lankan tour, they've all bowled really well this season at first class level.
 

Neil Pickup

Cricket Web Moderator
What Marc meant was that the NZ youngsters' domestic performances need to be taken into context given the bowling that they were facing in those games.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
That's right Neil.

I mean, look at the records of some Indian's in thier domestic Cricket - career averages of 60+ may mean that to some extent they're playing in batting paradises against mediocre bowling.
 

anzac

International Debutant
it's going to take some consistency to justify selection, and that takes time - anything else is either a prodigeous talent, a stop gap measure or a punt........

IMO NZ need to answer some basic questions re strategies etc b4 they start to look at replacements:
1. ODI batting strategy - 1st 15 over attack v last 10 over attack;
2. Cairns' role in the team - allrounder / part time support bowler / batsman;
3. Vincent's role in the team - Test & ODI. I struggle with the idea that he is good enough to open in Tests but not good enough for ODIs - is it his technique / strike rate or something? It reminds me of the past selection / non-selection of Bruce Edgar.

once they can answer these questions they need to look at some specialists in key areas to achieve these strategies:
1. ODI batting - they need to strengthen the top order with a specialist opener to protect the middle & lower orders from exposure to the new ball attack. I find it comical that the batsman with the best form from the ODI series v India did not get an extended run in the WC, particularly when there were so many problems with the top order / opening positions;
2. They need to select at least another seam bowler with penetration to compliment Bond so the attack does not run out of juice. Vettori is supposedly attacking by nature so they should take the shackles off him and use attacking field settings - but you need runs on the board or the consistant ability to score as insurance;
3. They need to look at more variety in the seam attack on the field - apart from Bond it seemed much the same pace.

This may result in some players becoming Test / ODI specialists, or horses for courses.

Next they may need to talk with some of the current players & coaches re changing their styles or targeting certain areas if they are to have a long term future in either squad. EG Adams IMO needs to look at lengthening his run up to gain more rythmn & control of his bowling, while Sinclair may need to target his footwork & taking singles re possible option as ODI opener.

Butler & O'Conner are my personal favs re bowling options, Butler for pace & O'Conner brings swing, particularly if Cairns is relegated to a part time support role. On current form Tuffey, Mills & Adams would miss out. I also like Hitchcock ahead of Harris as he has more variety & is considered a specialist 'at the death' like Mills.

McMillan is badly out of sorts & Vincent still looks unsure as to what is required of him. If Sinclair was considered the next best ODI batsman (he made the final squad), then he should be given the chance to have a run in the team b4 being passed over for a newby to the squad.

NZ also needs to get their Home pitch development back on track & encourage the batsman to back themselves & attack bowlers more often as they did v Canada, without needing to resort to a slog - Fleming's controlled agression is a fine example.

Some new blood should go on tour for both squads, esp if NZ do go to England to replace either SA or ZIM. Also they should perhaps look at trial type matches as they do in other codes & not just Nth v Sth state of origin, but these should be of mixed teams & not just v an 'A' team or 'possibles' v 'probables'.

:cool2:
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Well I think NZ needs to look at more of these 'A' tours, Shane Bond & Jacob Oram especially came to fame through the NZ 'A' tour of India in 2001.

I think NZ 'A' is meant to be a regular fixture in the Indian Buchi Babu tournament however im not sure why they didn't go this year.
I think NZ is also trying to get a spot in the West Indies competition. For the past 3 years England, Bangladesh & now India have sent teams there.

If NZ 'A' were to send a team of say 15 right now anywhere, this is the team i'd pick.

Tim McIntosh
Mathew Sinclair
Rob Nicol
Jesse Ryder
Peter Fulton
Gary Stead * captain
Ian Butler
Michael Mason
Bruce Martin
Chris Martin
James Franklin
Brendon McCullum
Matthew Walker
Michael Papps
Shayne O'Connor

There are plenty of other players they could pick like Tama Canning, Jamie How, Richard Jones, Craig Cumming etc but those are the guys i'd expect to be right up in the reckoning as far as spots for the Sri Lankan tour are concerned.
Jeff Wilson might even be a bet, I see he scored 66 against Canterbury the other day after a very lean summer I hope he takes that form & builds on from it.

The 15 I chose, i'll justify..

Mathew Sinclair I think needs to be exposed more at 'A' level at the moment, he really needs to sort out his batting problems at a high level but not at the very top where you can be punished by the media.
My all-rounders would be James Franklin & Matthew Walker, both are from Wellington and have been a big part of the reason why Wellington are near the top of the State Championship. They've scored runs & taken wickets so I would take them.
Batsman I've gone with youth & experience because I think you'd need it on a reasonably tough tour. Gary Stead I still think is capable of playing for NZ & he'd be the ideal captain for players like Rob Nicol & Jesse Ryder.
Once again the same can be said for the bowlers, a mix of youth & experience..Shayne O'Connor could teach Ian Butler a thing or two on his experience at international level.
McCullum needs to go on this type of tour because even though I think his keeping is up to scratch, his batting is not at this stage.

You'd think I'd add someone like Craig McMillan to this list, but I think the best thing for him to do is to forget about cricket & probably say no to the tour of Sri Lanka. If he comes back from a long break & continues to fail then his career could end quite quickly, or it could bounce back if he refreshes himself mentally.
Lou Vincent I think has been a victim of chopping & changing but he still has been given so many matches & failed so he may want to do the same as McMillan.

Thats about it really, I presume 14 players will be picked for both the ODI's & Test matches in Sri Lanka..and for those 15 i mentioned probably only 3 or 4 of them have a realistic chance of making the team.
 

Kiwi

State Vice-Captain
I think that for this tour the following changes should be made:

Ryder to replace McMillan - Lets face it McMillan is out of form and he is NOT an opener. Ryder is a one day opener and as most of you have seen that he is certainly one for the future. My only problem is that he is only 18 and maybe that is too early.

Papps to replace McCullum - I don't rate Brendon McCullum and I certainly do not like his attitude. I don't think anyone will get anywhere with the 'I'm a black cap, I am too good for everyone else' attitude. Papps has not had a good run with the bat since he got hit in the head by Ian Butler but from talking to him I see that he is just lacking in confidence. He is a really good player and he showed that in the first half of the season.

His keeping is also very good. His would only keep in One day matches though.

Butler to replace Mills - I think having a bowler bowling around the 145-150km/h mark to back up Bonds pace would be great. Also they have made it quite clear at the world cup that Mills is not really what they are loooking for. Butler was tried in the team too young but he did bowl some good spells. He has bowled well in this domestic season.

Nicol/McIntosh to replace Vincent - here are another couple of young players, playing well in the domestic series. I don't think they will go into the team yet though.

I think Gary Stead should be in the team but he is odviously not what the selectors are looking for because he has been in the NZ team before and he did nothing wrong but still they will not reselect him. He is one of the most consistant players I have seen.

I also think that we need another spinner. No one is at this level yet though so Harris is the next best option. i think for this reason he will stay in the team. Also if new players are going in then he is a good person to have around.
 

Kiwi

State Vice-Captain
Also I forgot to mention that I think Neil Broom is another one for the future. He has performed well in the state matches that he has been given a chance in.

4 matches. 237 runs @ 39.50
He is also a tidy part time bowler.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Well I think NZ also made a mistake by leaving Paul Hitchcock out, he would have been ideal for NZ's bowling attack and the selectors will probably admit they made a mistake by taking Mills instead of Hitchcock.

Yeah I've seen Neil Broom bat & he has a great technique, but he's only played a handful of first class matches so I doubt he'd be taken to Sri Lanka. Jesse Ryder has kind of played a full season for C.D & impressed in the Nth/Sth match.

Rob Nicol & Tim McIntosh should be right up there IMO, both of them have had 2 or 3 seasons now for Auckland so they are close to getting the call-up.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Tamara said:
I think that for this tour the following changes should be made:

Ryder to replace McMillan - Lets face it McMillan is out of form and he is NOT an opener. Ryder is a one day opener and as most of you have seen that he is certainly one for the future. My only problem is that he is only 18 and maybe that is too early.

Papps to replace McCullum - I don't rate Brendon McCullum and I certainly do not like his attitude. I don't think anyone will get anywhere with the 'I'm a black cap, I am too good for everyone else' attitude. Papps has not had a good run with the bat since he got hit in the head by Ian Butler but from talking to him I see that he is just lacking in confidence. He is a really good player and he showed that in the first half of the season.

His keeping is also very good. His would only keep in One day matches though.

Butler to replace Mills - I think having a bowler bowling around the 145-150km/h mark to back up Bonds pace would be great. Also they have made it quite clear at the world cup that Mills is not really what they are loooking for. Butler was tried in the team too young but he did bowl some good spells. He has bowled well in this domestic season.

Nicol/McIntosh to replace Vincent - here are another couple of young players, playing well in the domestic series. I don't think they will go into the team yet though.

I think Gary Stead should be in the team but he is odviously not what the selectors are looking for because he has been in the NZ team before and he did nothing wrong but still they will not reselect him. He is one of the most consistant players I have seen.

I also think that we need another spinner. No one is at this level yet though so Harris is the next best option. i think for this reason he will stay in the team. Also if new players are going in then he is a good person to have around.
I'm in full and total agreement! McCullum has done nothing at all to come close to impressing me. Also, I always rated Stead as a very good player and if I'm not mistaken, he did pretty well at International level.

A Butler/Bond combination would be lethal. Butler really impressed me when he came to the West Indies, although he didn't do very well statistically, and Bond is fairly okay-ish bowler ;) .
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
I'll give McCullum a break, even though he should have taken that catch..even the most experienced keepers i.e Boucher make the same mistakes, but McCullum has also been given a very important roll as a batsman in the side & has never really done anything.

I don't think the selectors can totally discard him because that would really send his career into a spin, I think he needs to go back to the NZ Academy & work on his batting.

I'm not sure which way the selectors will turn now. However its likely there will be some casulties later next month when the teams for the Sri Lankan tour are announced.

At this stage I think McMillan & Vincent will not make the cut & dare I say it Andre Adams aswell.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
As far as im concerned Robbie Hart should stay as test keeper, he's done nothing wrong with the gloves & has yet to let NZ down with the bat so if he were to be dropped he would be rightly disappointed & maybe angry too.
 

Kiwi

State Vice-Captain
Gary Steads Stats:

Internationals:
8 innings with 278 runs @ 34.75

First Class:
3829 runs @ 33.58 (7 100's and 21 50's).

I think that if someone averages 34 in there first 8 innings of international cricket they should get another go. If i remember correctly he also got NZ out of trouble a couple of times as well.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
If you look at NZ's U19 team is an awesome unit.
Neil Broom, Ross Taylor, James Hill, Simon Allen, Eric Standfield, Jesse Ryder etc..these guys are very good but its unlikely we'll see most of them for another 2 or 3 years so NZ need to look at what some more experienced players.

For me its a non-issue that Gary Stead needs to come back into the team to open with Mark Richardson. That to me is a good opening partnership because you know both players will not give away their wickets easily & you know that if they do get out it was because of a good ball.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Tamara said:
Gary Steads Stats:

Internationals:
8 innings with 278 runs @ 34.75

First Class:
3829 runs @ 33.58 (7 100's and 21 50's).

I think that if someone averages 34 in there first 8 innings of international cricket they should get another go. If i remember correctly he also got NZ out of trouble a couple of times as well.
At the age of 31, I would have to question as to whether Stead is part of the NZ cricket future?
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
If NZ want to get into a winning habit IMO they've got to pick specialist players & if the player happens to be 31 it doesn't matter. Stead maybe a temporary solution but NZ just aren't getting it right with Vincent at the top of the order.

In saying that, I feel Tim McIntosh will win the race for the next test opener because he opens with Mark Richardson for Auckland.
 

Kiwi

State Vice-Captain
Matt Horne is also in good form at the moment. I think they should chose one of the younger players though. My pick would be Papps but with his form in the last few weeks then McIntosh will probably get the nod.

As for Stead. I don't think we will see him as the selectors have never really liked him and he is getting too old. If they want to give Papps/McIntosh another year or two in domestic cricket then he would be perfect though.
 

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