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Thread: Best & Worst Declarations

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Interesting, had never heard of that before.

    Strange because Imran is and always has been thought of as being such a superb man-manager of exactly people like Javed.
    Imran was a bit obsessive in his belief that every effort should be for victory and not personal glory/records. Also, Miandad was still 85 runs away from Gary Sobers' record, but I can understand why Miandad would be miffed.

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    International Regular shortpitched713's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Interesting, had never heard of that before.

    Strange because Imran is and always has been thought of as being such a superb man-manager of exactly people like Javed.
    With Javed it wasn't so much man-management as keeping a potential rival in his place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barney Rubble View Post
    Haha, that's impressive. I thought I had a good mind for stats. Well, I do have a good mind for random info, but lately I've been forgetting a lot of it. Haven't watched cricket in so long I probably forget the rules these days, same goes for footy with the exception of the odd France match here and there.

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  4. #34
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    Among the worst non declarations (not to it was well too late anyway) has a new nominee today in First Class cricket anyway. WA batting through most of the last day and setting Tassie more 500 to win in bugger all time when Tassie have been crap in the Pura Cup all year stinks of weakness.


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    Think there was a thread about this a week or two ago, about Somerset's declaration on.....wait for it.....1 run.
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    Hansie Cronje and English Captain (Hussain maybe) in a Test Match in South Africa where both teams declared the first innings without batting was a very good declaration IMO.

    It was kinda controversal but was good for the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    Hansie Cronje and English Captain (Hussain maybe) in a Test Match in South Africa where both teams declared the first innings without batting was a very good declaration IMO.

    It was kinda controversal but was good for the game.
    Interestingly, a few commentators actually did praise Cronje for his actions at the time as he (with Nasser's unwitting collusion) had breathed life into an otherwise inevitable draw, but the fact that he did it at the bookmakers'/match-fixers' behest means that it was absolutely ****ing awful for the game. One of the main tenents of sport is that all competitors are legitimately trying to win.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    It will seem strange having to speak English all the time again. I spent two weeks there and when I got to the UK it took me a day or two to get my brain thinking in English. Simple things like say 'thank you' rather then 'merci'.
    Yeah, can imagine. I'm looking forward to people in the street actually trying to avoid me, instead of just walking into me and then following it up with "Pardon". I'm also looking forward to beer that comes in pints, seeing my friends, watching some football, watching some cricket...man, I'd need my own thread to tell you all the things I'm looking forward to about coming home, even for two weeks!

  9. #39
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    Hansie Cronje and English Captain (Hussain maybe) in a Test Match in South Africa where both teams declared the first innings without batting was a very good declaration IMO.

    It was kinda controversal but was good for the game.
    Interestingly, a few commentators actually did praise Cronje for his actions at the time as he (with Nasser's unwitting collusion) had breathed life into an otherwise inevitable draw, but the fact that he did it at the bookmakers'/match-fixers' behest means that it was absolutely ****ing awful for the game. One of the main tenents of sport is that all competitors are legitimately trying to win.
    Perhaps, then, it'd be most accurate to say that any such declaration where the idea was that of someone other than a gambler would have been a good one.

    It's interesting that that game was never fixed in the classic manner. The person responsible, Marlon Aronstram, planned to beat the bookmakers. Normally, it's the bookmakers who get involved to try and beat the punters.

    Cronje, in short, was interested not in breathing life into the game, but getting a result. Which meant that a South African victory was the best outcome for him, an England victory the second. And to ensure against the draw, he, er, cunningly brought himself on just when it looked like England were going to shut-up shop.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Perhaps, then, it'd be most accurate to say that any such declaration where the idea was that of someone other than a gambler would have been a good one.

    It's interesting that that game was never fixed in the classic manner. The person responsible, Marlon Aronstram, planned to beat the bookmakers. Normally, it's the bookmakers who get involved to try and beat the punters.

    Cronje, in short, was interested not in breathing life into the game, but getting a result. Which meant that a South African victory was the best outcome for him, an England victory the second. And to ensure against the draw, he, er, cunningly brought himself on just when it looked like England were going to shut-up shop.
    It's an interesting viewpoint. Captains have colluded in the county championship since it began to set agreed targets to give the possibility of a result, but before that tour it was unheard of in tests. I remember being stunned rigid that we'd won, having left for work (& having no internet access at work back then) with the 5th day about to begin and SA's 1st innings still in progress. When I flicked on teletext (this was the dark ages) to read the details I was surprised, but didn't suspect anything amiss at all. Cronje was seen at the time as a paragon of Calvinist rectitude, so the idea that he'd "fix" a match was laughable.

    What is undeniable is that it created an exciting finish to a test match, which is usually a good thing. Unfortunately the circumstances are such that no two captains are likely to come to a similar arrangement any time soon because the finger of suspicion would inevitably point in their directions. Which is maybe a pity.

  11. #41
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    Hussain's reaction when he heard the suggestion (Alec Stewart walked past him on the fourth evening and said "have you spoken to Hansie? He wants to make a game of it.") was "nah, no way, this isn't Essex v Hampshire at Colchester, this is a Test, you don't mess around with Tests". Exactly as you say - the idea was unthinkable.

    The point is, though - why? I think it was a downright odd thought. The Test was a dead one, and there was a large crowd of English spectators. Why not make a game of it? There was no good reason not to. Sure, the victory wouldn't have meant much to anyone - Atherton recalls how (long before anyone suspected gambling-related intervention) he felt "completely hollow" as he watched the fans celebrate. It wasn't a true Test-match victory. I felt exactly the same as you and Atherton did. Even now, I think of that series as a 2-0 victory for SA.

    But it would, had the idea been raised by, let's say, Graeme Ford or Duncan Fletcher and not the aforementioned Aronstram, have been a wonderful thing for cricket. It turned what would otherwise have been a meaningless day into a thrilling one. And that, really, is all that would have mattered had Aronstram not been involved.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    Imran Khan once created a huge furore in Pakistan by declaring in a match against India in 1983 when Javed Miandad was unbeaten on 280. Would you consider that wrong?
    Yes. He should have given Miandad (as an example) five overs to get the runs. Or told him earlier when he would declare so Miandad could plan his innings. Otherwise, absolutely it was wrong.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    Yes. He should have given Miandad (as an example) five overs to get the runs. Or told him earlier when he would declare so Miandad could plan his innings. Otherwise, absolutely it was wrong.
    Hmm... not sure I would agree with that. Making a declaration is a dynamic thing, sometimes if your team is scoring too slow you might need to delay the declaration and if the team has scored very quickly it might be advantageous to make it earlier.

    Would probably agree with your first idea though, if they're close to a very big milestone and you as a captain are close to a declaration it would be a great idea to inform them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 33/3from3.3 View Post
    Think there was a thread about this a week or two ago, about Somerset's declaration on.....wait for it.....1 run.

    A mate of mine at the time (RIP Nick) was one of the 20 something spectators who paid to get in, he got his 75p back though.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I don't blame Hick at all TBH. You can say "it's a team game" all you want - it's a team game played by individuals, and individual achievements do mean a hell of a lot, whether some people like it or not. A century is a buoyancy-aid to a team, and denying a batsman a century is bound to have some effect.
    Pretty much my feelings on the matter. Although as sp713 it was a tad selfish on Hick's behalf, and quite unprofessional. I feel as though Hick had a right to be angry for a day or two, maybe even 4 or 5, depending on what kind of character he was, but to not speak to the captain for two weeks is pretty poor and would not have helped the mood in the dressing room at all.
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