Dhoni vs Yuvraj

[usarav]

Who is the best?
Yuvraj-Batting and fielding averages
Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St
Tests 19 29 4 830 122 33.20 1568 52.93 2 3 118 5 21 0
ODIs 194 176 26 5523 139 36.82 6372 86.67 8 33 568 80 62 0
T20Is 7 6 1 179 70 35.80 101 177.22 0 2 10 15 1 0
First-class 72 115 14 4410 209 43.66 14 20 77 0
List A 257 234 35 7480 139 37.58 11 46 83 0
Twenty20 20 19 1 505 71 28.05 363 139.11 0 4 54 23 2 0

Bowling averages-
Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10
Tests 19 7 144 90 1 1/25 1/25 90.00 3.75 144.0 0 0 0
ODIs 194 86 2446 2090 53 4/6 4/6 39.43 5.12 46.1 1 0 0
T20Is 7 1 18 38 1 1/38 1/38 38.00 12.66 18.0 0 0 0
First-class 72 1071 591 10 3/25 59.10 3.31 107.1 0 0
List A 257 3365 2851 84 4/6 4/6 33.94 5.08 40.0 1 0 0
Twenty20 20 10 126 167 10 3/20 3/20 16.70 7.95 12.6 0 0 0

Dhoni-Batting and fielding averages
Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St
Tests 20 32 4 1019 148 36.39 1397 72.94 1 6 130 23 53 10
ODIs 95 85 21 2814 183* 43.96 2964 94.93 3 17 236 78 86 27
T20Is 9 8 2 163 45 27.16 127 128.34 0 0 13 4 2 0
First-class 58 95 7 3082 148 35.02 4 19 157 26
List A 147 133 29 4702 183* 45.21 9 28 150 42
Twenty20 13 12 4 286 73* 35.75 193 148.18 0 1 23 12 3 0

Bowling averages-
Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10
Tests 20 1 6 13 0 - - - 13.00 - 0 0 0
ODIs 95 - - - - - - - - - - - -
T20Is 9 - - - - - - - - - - - -
First-class 58 36 33 0 - - - 5.50 - 0 0 0
List A 147 - - - - - - - - - - - -
Twenty20 13 - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

[Manee]

Who is the best?
Yuvraj-Batting and fielding averages
Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St
Tests 19 29 4 830 122 33.20 1568 52.93 2 3 118 5 21 0
ODIs 194 176 26 5523 139 36.82 6372 86.67 8 33 568 80 62 0
T20Is 7 6 1 179 70 35.80 101 177.22 0 2 10 15 1 0
First-class 72 115 14 4410 209 43.66 14 20 77 0
List A 257 234 35 7480 139 37.58 11 46 83 0
Twenty20 20 19 1 505 71 28.05 363 139.11 0 4 54 23 2 0

Bowling averages-
Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10
Tests 19 7 144 90 1 1/25 1/25 90.00 3.75 144.0 0 0 0
ODIs 194 86 2446 2090 53 4/6 4/6 39.43 5.12 46.1 1 0 0
T20Is 7 1 18 38 1 1/38 1/38 38.00 12.66 18.0 0 0 0
First-class 72 1071 591 10 3/25 59.10 3.31 107.1 0 0
List A 257 3365 2851 84 4/6 4/6 33.94 5.08 40.0 1 0 0
Twenty20 20 10 126 167 10 3/20 3/20 16.70 7.95 12.6 0 0 0

Dhoni-Batting and fielding averages
Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St
Tests 20 32 4 1019 148 36.39 1397 72.94 1 6 130 23 53 10
ODIs 95 85 21 2814 183* 43.96 2964 94.93 3 17 236 78 86 27
T20Is 9 8 2 163 45 27.16 127 128.34 0 0 13 4 2 0
First-class 58 95 7 3082 148 35.02 4 19 157 26
List A 147 133 29 4702 183* 45.21 9 28 150 42
Twenty20 13 12 4 286 73* 35.75 193 148.18 0 1 23 12 3 0

Bowling averages-
Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10
Tests 20 1 6 13 0 - - - 13.00 - 0 0 0
ODIs 95 - - - - - - - - - - - -
T20Is 9 - - - - - - - - - - - -
First-class 58 36 33 0 - - - 5.50 - 0 0 0
List A 147 - - - - - - - - - - - -
Twenty20 13 - - - - - - - - - - - -

I think you'd be better to post this as the statistics.

MS Dhoni in Black
Yuvraj Singh in Red

                     Mat  Runs  HS   BatAv 100  50   W    BB  BowlAv 5w  Ct St
Tests                 20  1019 148   36.39   1   6   0   -       -    0  53 10
                      [COLOR="Red"]19   830 122   33.20   2   3   1  1/25   90.00  0  21  0[/COLOR]

                     Mat  Runs  HS   BatAv 100  50   W    BB  BowlAv 5w  Ct St
ODIs                  95  2814 183*  43.96   3  17   -   -       -    -  86 27
                     [COLOR="red"]194  5523 139   36.82   8  33  53  4/6    39.43  0  62  0[/COLOR]

                     Mat  Runs  HS   BatAv 100  50   W    BB  BowlAv 5w  Ct St
T20Is                  9   163  45   27.16   0   0   -   -       -    -   2  0
                       [COLOR="Red"]7   179  70   35.80   0   2   1  1/38   38.00  0   1  0[/COLOR]

 

[headhunter]

Dhoni for mine

 

[Speersy]

Dhoni easily, yes Yuvraj may be the better batsmen however the question was "who is the best". Since Dhoni captains, keeps wicket and bats well in ODI's he's better hands down.

 

[pasag]

Yuvraj bowls and is a top notch fielder though. Anyways, as a batsmen, would take Yuvraj in both forms tbh.

 

[bond21]

if you just want to lay out statistics, why the hell do you need to ask us? Obviously if you are so obsessed with stats, shouldnt the answer be in black and white?

 

[usarav]

Thanks!

I think you'd be better to post this as the statistics.

MS Dhoni in Black
Yuvraj Singh in Red

                     Mat  Runs  HS   BatAv 100  50   W    BB  BowlAv 5w  Ct St
Tests                 20  1019 148   36.39   1   6   0   -       -    0  53 10
                      [COLOR="Red"]19   830 122   33.20   2   3   1  1/25   90.00  0  21  0[/COLOR]

                     Mat  Runs  HS   BatAv 100  50   W    BB  BowlAv 5w  Ct St
ODIs                  95  2814 183*  43.96   3  17   -   -       -    -  86 27
                     [COLOR="red"]194  5523 139   36.82   8  33  53  4/6    39.43  0  62  0[/COLOR]

                     Mat  Runs  HS   BatAv 100  50   W    BB  BowlAv 5w  Ct St
T20Is                  9   163  45   27.16   0   0   -   -       -    -   2  0
                       [COLOR="Red"]7   179  70   35.80   0   2   1  1/38   38.00  0   1  0[/COLOR]

Thanks!

 

[Dasa]

if you just want to lay out statistics, why the hell do you need to ask us? Obviously if you are so obsessed with stats, shouldnt the answer be in black and white?

Bit harsh for mine.

Anyway, I'd rate Yuvraj a fair bit higher than Dhoni. Both are unproven at Test level, and Yuvraj has been fantastic the last few years in ODIs, moreso than Dhoni.

 

[silentstriker]

Dhoni wins by default as one is currently a member of the Test side, while the other is not.

Long term? Neither are Test material.

 

[Manee]

Dhoni wins by default as one is currently a member of the Test side, while the other is not.

Long term? Neither are Test material.

Don't let your hate of limited overs cricket affect your judgement, Tests and ODIs are even in terms of comparing players as both require an equal amount of skill in the primary art.

In Test matches, I feel that Dhoni pips it due to his improved wicket keeping and batting which I feel is on par with Yuvraj. Dhoni's strength against spin cannot be ignored either.

In ODIs, it has to be Yuvraj. Dhoni's average is affected by many successful chases while Yuvraj's is hindered by early years as a long term prospect and underperformer. Yuvraj has been sublime in the past few years whilst having the superior ability to take a match away from the opposition than Dhoni. Yuvraj's fielding overshadows Dhoni's keeping too.

In T20s, it is Yuvraj again, he is the better batsman able to hit from the start and Yuvraj's fielding has the magnified affect in T20 as shown in the World Championship.

I don't think Dhoni has captained long enough for me to find out whether it makes him a more complete player. I am still pending on his captaincy.

@Bond21, I hope that was not aimed at me, I was just helping make the stats more clear.

 

[pasag]

...Tests and ODIs are even in terms of comparing players as both require an equal amount of skill in the primary art.

Please expound.

 

[Richard]

@Bond21, I hope that was not aimed at me, I was just helping make the stats more clear.

You'd do best to ignore him TBH mate.

 

[Richard]

MS Dhoni in Black
Yuvraj Singh in Red

                     Mat  Runs  HS   BatAv 100  50   W    BB  BowlAv 5w  Ct St
Tests                 20  1019 148   36.39   1   6   0   -       -    0  53 10
                      [COLOR="Red"]19   830 122   33.20   2   3   1  1/25   90.00  0  21  0[/COLOR]

                     Mat  Runs  HS   BatAv 100  50   W    BB  BowlAv 5w  Ct St
ODIs                  95  2814 183*  43.96   3  17   -   -       -    -  86 27
                     [COLOR="red"]194  5523 139   36.82   8  33  53  4/6    39.43  0  62  0[/COLOR]

                     Mat  Runs  HS   BatAv 100  50   W    BB  BowlAv 5w  Ct St
T20Is                  9   163  45   27.16   0   0   -   -       -    -   2  0
                       [COLOR="Red"]7   179  70   35.80   0   2   1  1/38   38.00  0   1  0[/COLOR]

In ODIs, I'd not like to put much between them. Both top-notch. Dhoni also keeps and Yuvraj also bowls... and obviously the question is how good they are at batting so this doesn't matter.

In Tests, I very much remain to be convinced by the both of them.

 

[Manee]

Please expound.

I feel that the best way to compare players is to look at their primary art (this being in the event that a player is not an all rounder) because comparisons are usually made between players who were at least the top 50 of their time in their primary art and not bits and pieces players (ala Michael Yardy).

I feel that Tests and ODIs have a relatively even focus on this art - runs and wickets are key in both and whilst Tests have a greater focus on the amount of wickets and amount of runs, the fact that each are more valuable in ODIs evens this out.

In T20s, the effect of fielding is great and so comparisons between players can be tough because one may be a better fielder. Furthermore, it is hard to see whether wickets or economy is better in T20s or average or strike rate which means comparing players in T20s is hard and superfluous (great word).

 

[Manee]

In Tests, I very much remain to be convinced by the both of them.

You're right, it is all speculation when comparing in Tests. But a comparison can be made.

 

[silentstriker]

Don't let your hate of limited overs cricket affect your judgement, Tests and ODIs are even in terms of comparing players as both require an equal amount of skill in the primary art.

Tests are the ultimate test of one's cricketing skills. Period. If you disagree, well, that's your right but I do not see any limited over 'cricket' coming close.

In Test matches, I feel that Dhoni pips it due to his improved wicket keeping and batting which I feel is on par with Yuvraj. Dhoni's strength against spin cannot be ignored either.

Dhoni is a bad wicketkeeper, though he has improved from being abysmal. Dhoni, on subcontinental tracks, might be a passable Test batsman but does not possess the temperament or the technique to be a reliable batsman-wicketkeeper. And he doesn't possess the skills with the gloves to be a reliable wicketkeeper-batsman.

Yuvraj Singh, on the other hand, is not a regular Test player, so his status is to be determined in my eyes. When he was tried before, the results were mixed at best. He'll get a chance soon, so we'll see, but I remain unconvinced.

In ODIs, it has to be Yuvraj. Dhoni's average is affected by many successful chases while Yuvraj's is hindered by early years as a long term prospect and underperformer. Yuvraj has been sublime in the past few years whilst having the superior ability to take a match away from the opposition than Dhoni. Yuvraj's fielding overshadows Dhoni's keeping too.

Doesn't matter.

In T20s, it is Yuvraj again, he is the better batsman able to hit from the start and Yuvraj's fielding has the magnified affect in T20 as shown in the World Championship.

Doesn't matter.

 

[Manee]

Tests are the ultimate test of one's cricketing skills. Period. If you disagree, well, that's your right but I do not see any limited over 'cricket' coming close.

Well...at least you accept that I have a right to my opinion.

 

[silentstriker]

Yes, I accept people have the right to have wrong opinions.

 

[Manee]

Yes, I accept people have the right to have wrong opinions.

Lol. Why don't you like Limited overs cricket?

I feel it is a good move and in perspective to Test cricket (ignoring the obvious reasons, more fans...etc), it is a further integration of the international game with county, club and school cricket where 20, 40 and 50 over cricket is common place. Now, there is a greater understanding of fans as to what skills are needed for international cricket, more specifically 50 over and T20.

Surely that is not a bad thing.

 

[silentstriker]

Lol. Why don't you like Limited overs cricket?

Because people often label it cricket. In seriousness, I personally find it boring. For me, nothing matches a good Test match where things swing session to session and the expectation reaches its highest point on a fifth day where all three results are possible.

I feel it is a good move and in perspective to Test cricket (ignoring the obvious reasons, more fans...etc), it is a further integration of the international game with county, club and school cricket where 20, 40 and 50 over cricket is common place. Now, there is a greater understanding of fans as to what skills are needed for international cricket, more specifically 50 over and T20.

Surely that is not a bad thing.

I do think that ODI has had a slight positive effect on Tests, but it has also led to many of the basic cricketing skills being pushed on the backburner. And now it has reached a critical level where the ODI game is slowly but surely cannibalizing Test cricket, and you see a Two-Three Test, seven ODI tour quite often.

I fully realize the importance of the ODI game for the financial viability of the international scene, but Test cricket is the bedrock on which everything else is built, and though I can see why one needs to play ODIs/T20s, they should not be played at the expense of the very thing that makes cricket what it is. Cricket is not football, and never will be.

To get back to your question, though some skills are undoubtedly shared between the formats, the shorter versions make mockery of the 'art' (hey Pasag ) of cricket. In Twenty20, we saw the bowlers unveil a massive arsenal of deliveries, which consisted of the yorker, the slower ball, the even slower ball, and the even sloweeeerr ball. Impressive, but that's a carnival, not cricket.