• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Anil Kumble - India's New Test Captain

Shaggy Alfresco

State Captain
Nice to see a bowler becoming captain for once. Every time we see a batsman become a captain and there goes his form
The reason why bowlers don't get the captaincy is that the same happens to their form if they're given it. And if a bowler loses their form, it can be disasterous.
 

jeevan

International 12th Man
Why isn't Ajay Jadeja an idiot too?
Gundappa Vishwanath is the one serious cricketer (outside of CW ofcourse) to have talked in favor of having Dhoni, not aware of others. This was prior to announcement and significant because he is usually low key.

As SS mentioned - dont think anyone would want Jadeja or Sidhu speaking up for them. Actually subtracts from the merit of the case, for folks like me at least.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
No, Sidhu's just an idiot.

Not, obviously, that fixing a match is worse than beating someone to death. 8-)
 

jeevan

International 12th Man
So Sidhu is an Idiot for having an opinion which actually does have some merit ?

The opinion (make Dhoni as test skipper) has some merit. As do all the following opinions on this particular topic:
- Dhoni is still cementing his place as a first rate test cricketer.
- Dhoni is too inexperienced as a test player to be given the job ahead of a tough series or two. Make backfire and affect his overall cricketing career and that of the Indian team.
- Kumble has more than earned the captaincy.
- Kumble is more than qualified for it.
- Kumble is around for a year or two, enough time to groom Dhoni properly.
- Three or four ex-captains, ODI captains are manageable.

Expressing or debating any, or a combination, of them is fine. Selectors went with a couple of the above. Not black and white perhaps but largely acceptable.

What is egregious is AFTER the decision, a time for others to move on and let the team pull together, to make public statements belittling the decision and by implication Kumble too.

Especially when, being Jadeja or Sidhu, you dont really hold a candle to Kumble or, for that matter, Vengsarkar and Dhoni. At best, this is trying to pee on Kumble's parade. At worst it is trying to inflict doubt in the Indian team going into two challenging series.

What is the right adjective for this behavior? Dont know if theres just the right one, but idiocy is a good candidate.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Agree completely. Saying "Kumble bad choice as captain" might be seen as speaking your mind, but in reality if you have any desire to see India do well, you'll shut-up. Obviously, there are many past players who care more about keeping themselves in the spotlight than the success of their side after their days.
 

jeevan

International 12th Man
Actually, it's called democracy
No it isn't. Democracy is Jadeja,Sidhu being able to say this or almost anything they want (short of yelling "fire" in a stadium for eg) without fear of death, imprisonment or prosecution.

The freedoms under it include the one to engage in idiocy. Rousseau, I think, said something much cleverer about it, cant recall exactly what.
 
Last edited:

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
What is egregious is AFTER the decision, a time for others to move on and let the team pull together, to make public statements belittling the decision and by implication Kumble too.

Especially when, being Jadeja or Sidhu, you dont really hold a candle to Kumble or, for that matter, Vengsarkar and Dhoni. At best, this is trying to pee on Kumble's parade. At worst it is trying to inflict doubt in the Indian team going into two challenging series.

What is the right adjective for this behavior? Dont know if theres just the right one, but idiocy is a good candidate.

8-) 8-)
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Actually, it's called democracy
No one is saying they didn't have the right to say it. FFS I hate when people pull out the free speech line as if those criticising what certain individuals say is somehow an insistence that they should be censored.

They have the right to say what they like, but they should have stated it in a far more decent fashion, and probably shouldn't have made comment at all.

I for one would have preferred Dhoni, so technically I agree with their statements, but equally I am quite satisfied with Kumble as captain. He's deserved it too after his great service. All they've done is **** on Kumble's parade.

Luckily Kumble is a guy that won't let that get to him. He loves proving doubters wrong so it'll probably inspire the great man.
 

jeevan

International 12th Man
Are you surprised?
Not by Sanz, nor by Jadeja,Sidhu. Is one of the reasons why the Indian cricket captaincy is such a crown of thorns. And the sort of thing that has probably factored into Tendulkar, Dravid passing it on.

Kumble, fortunately, is well above this. Check his statements on his getting this so late, on this being an arrangement towards making way for Dhoni and his assesment of Dhoni himself.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/other_international/india/7085876.stm

These folks will not have this sort of graciousness if you drowned them in a pool full of it.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Decent post for mine, and even if you disagree, don't feel for a second it deserved that response.
It was at the language he has used and also at the hypocrisy esp when he included Vengsarkar when it is well known how much Vengsarkar's comments were responsible for Dravid's resignation.

Also It is laughable to suggest that Sidhu doesn't hold a candle to the likes of Dhoni.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Not by Sanz, nor by Jadeja,Sidhu. Is one of the reasons why the Indian cricket captaincy is such a crown of thorns. And the sort of thing that has probably factored into Tendulkar, Dravid passing it on.
My My..getting little precious, aren't you ? So Sidhu was responsible for Dravid's resignation...May be if you had followed the news..you would have noticed how gracious was Vengsarkar about Dravid's captaincy. And need I tell you why Tendulkar didn't accept Captaincy ?

Refresh your memory.. :- http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/extracover/content/story/318623.html

Also if this kind of criticism is the reason why Dravid and Tendulkar Refused the captaincy then I must say they didn't deserve to be a captain at any point.
 
Last edited:

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
These folks will not have this sort of graciousness if you drowned them in a pool full of it.
Wow, this is how you go on attacking people who do not agree with you ?

Kumble himself has said that he realises that is sort of a stop gap arrangement. Sidhu said the same thing and said that it was a backward step, for which an argument can be made.

Besides Sidhu is not the only one who has said something like this, Anshuman Gaekwad, Ashoke Malhotra etc all have made similar remarks.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Kumble :-

You’re 37, an age by when most cricketers have called it a day. So, are you now going to be that much more motivated?

The captaincy has, indeed, come as a shot in the arm... There’s a zing to my career now... As in the past, I’ll put my best foot forward and help Indian cricket get the results it deserves... We do need to move forward...

But aren’t you disappointed that the captaincy has come so late?

(Laughs again) Well, better late than never... I got many calls even before the selectors had made their decision and everybody said I deserved to be captain. That touched me and I hope to live up to their and my expectations. Our cricket has a rich history, has tradition and I’m happy with the new role.

Still, are you somewhat apprehensive that the split captaincy (Mahendra Singh Dhoni is captain in ODIs and the Twenty20 format) could lead to confusion/uncertainty in the dressing room?

No way... I believe Dhoni and I are going to complement each other...

Wouldn’t you have been happier had the appointment also been for the four-Test series in Australia?

As you know, I take one thing at a time... Never look too far ahead... I’m only thinking of the upcoming three Tests.

Have you looked up to any one captain?

I’ve tried to take bits and pieces from the captains I’ve played under and against, but I’d like to do things my way... Perhaps, do things a bit differently... Sure, I’ve admired a few captains, but I’d rather not make that public.

What’s the type of captain you’d like to be?

One who ensures that his players are prepared in the best possible manner and one who allows them to play their natural game... I want that 100 per cent from every player, that’s it... (After a pause) Besides consistency, I’m looking forward to building a team ethic.

Today, what’s your biggest challenge or priority No. 1?

Having been around for 17 years, I know what’s required to be done... We’ve got to go forward and that can be achieved by being consistent. Personally, I’m at my best when I’m really intense and would like a high level of intensity from the team as well... The Test series isn’t far away and the matches are back-to-back, so there’s little time to think too much.

Your debut will be at the Kotla...

(Interrupting) Oh, the Kotla has always been special... I scored a hundred at the U-19 level, then I made my India comeback (1992-93 tour of South Africa) after doing well in the Irani Trophy there... I’ve also got 10 wickets in a Test innings (10 for 74 and match figures of 14 for 149 versus Pakistan, in 1999)... It really is a special ground and I’m happy that my debut as Test captain is going to be there.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1071110/asp/sports/story_8532591.asp
 

jeevan

International 12th Man
For the record Sanz, In my book:

Kumble >>> Dhoni(who has potential to move higher) >>>> Jadeja (fixer), Sidhu


And saying "when you have a leader like Dhoni, why turn to a person like Anil"
denigrates Kumble (longer history of captaincy,cricket) == ungracious.

And while Sidhu probably had nothing to do with Dravid's resignation, it was this type of public commentary,many times thoughtless, by ex-cricketers that makes the Indian captaincy a crown of thorns. If Vengsarkar is part of the problem, so be it to blame him too, I hold no brief for him. I was referring to Vengsarkar as a selector who had made a decision to appoint Kumble.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Why Anil Kumble ?

There has been near unanimous applause from the galleries on Kumble's being appointed the captain of the test side. Surprising since he wasn't most people's first choice. I suppose it shows the warm regard in which he is held by Indians in particular and cricket followers around the world in general. But I came across one person on another forum who said that it was a regressive move. dual command centres. like a government office seniority based promotion/appointment

I post my response to that here not just to share my thought with all my friends here but also to save myself the trouble of writing all over again with all the typos, grammatical errors that old-age seems to bring in increasing numbers with every passing day:)

Here it is.

Thats a very interesting call. One of the rare one's I have seen on the two cricket forums I frequent. For that reason alone I am glad to see it plus it has some merits in what he is trying to say.

All those who were for Dhoni or Tendulkar (or Dravid or Ganguly or Laxman or George Bush for that matter) seem to have welcomed it as a sensible, best option available, deserving recognition for the fighter from Karnataka, ideal stop-gap-arrangement, gives-Dhoni-time etc etc.

Does this sound like all India (and the world) is claiming Kumble is the best man to lead India ? Far from it. In fact, there have been more left handed compliments to Kumble and, I dare say, to the selectors who made the decision, in the last two days than they (Kumble and the selectors) may find funny.

No one has come out and said Kumble is a good captain PERIOD....and thats because they dont really know if he is. No one has said that he is the solution to India's captaincy problems....and that because he isn't and hasn't been offered as one. Then why has Kumble been made India's next test captain.

- Kumble has been made captain because of what in Indian politics is called the TINA factor. The there-is-no-alternative factor. For this alone - that we are in a situation where we have run out of alternatives that were/should-have-been planned for - the selectors, and the BCCI to some extent, need to be roundly ticked off.

- Kumble has been made captain because those who were chosen for the job refused to do it. For this alone - that the most coveted job in Indian sport is considered such an unappetising prospect by those who have it or are offered - the BCCI, the selectors, the Indian media and to a lesser extent the teeming billion blue of India need to be asked to do massive introspection.

- Kumble has been made captain because the man we feel is Indian cricket's undisputed and partly crowned leader of today and tomorrow is also felt to be in the need of 'protection' from the 'morale-sapping' defeat that Australia may inflict on us or, God-forbid, Shoaib's unfancied troops do at home. So scared are we of a loss to the undisputed champions of the game and so fragile (or so it would appear) is the mental make up of our 26 year old 'crown prince' that we and he need to be provided protection in the form of this 37 year old battle-scarred warrior from Karnataka. If this is the state of our forbearance and the fortitude of our leaders of the future we are in trouble anyway.

- Kumble has also been made captain (so some are claiming) because his absence from the ODI side. Apparently this would make it easier for Dhoni (dont ask me why) in odi's and for Kumble in tests - perhaps because he wouldn't have painful recollections of Dhoni's dirty looks for a poor over or a bad miss on the field earlier in a limited over game. Australia and England have thought differently and while one may debate the merits or otherwise of split captaincy, it doesnt reflect too positively on Dhoni and Kumble's man management skills and certainly is not a positive reason for Kumble's selection.​

So while we may say nice things about Kumble's selection (as I too have done) we need to remember that he seems to have been selected for , if not the wrong reasons, certainly not for the most positive ones.

Finally, by selecting him only for the Pakistan series and not for the entire season and for giving as a reason, for this public show of lack of confidence, Kumble's uncertain form-and-fitness', the selectors have revealed their shoddy attitude towards India captains. Its quite possible that this reason is given as a dishonest cover and that the selectors are actually going to look at the results of the ODI and test series against Pakistan before choosing between the two captains that are leading the two campaigns.

Nothing wrong in wanting to be sure if your decision is the right one but can you really find out about either in the short time given?

Captaincy is a skill, just as any other in the game, which can be seen, debated and assessed but not not always in the light of the match results. Just as great batsmen may not always win tests for you - great captains too may not be able to do so. Surely, success or lack of it in a short run of three test matches is not going to tell you much. But Mr Vengsarkar and his merry band know better. Tell you what, this stinks not of giving Kumble a gift (as very badly put by Sanjay Manjrekar who specialises putting things badly) or of belatedly discovering latent leadeship skills in Anil kumble but of selectors, who talk of the long run, having no idea that mishandling the short run in not a good way to build for the future.

This, the selecting Kumble to keep the seat warm, as it were, for Dhoni may also give a clue as to why the Sachin refused to take up the job. I would not be surprised if he made it clear that he would take up the job only if allowed to lead for the next 2-3 years. You cant find fault with that. Sachin doesn't really need that job. Why should he have taken it up and be held up to ridicule by an increasingly ungrateful fan following (and media) that has been talking of its-time-for-Sachin-to-go even when he has been going through his brightest patch (batting-wise) since the last six years or so.

He would have and should have taken it up as an honour- which it is; to try and set right the one untidy bit in his CV - which he may or may not have succeeded in doing; AND to try and guide and build the team he would want to leave behind when he bids farewell to the dressing room - which I am sure he would have loved to do . None of these, however, can be accomplished in a short stint.

But we digress. Coming back to Kumble and his appointment, if Kumble comes out with good results (a draw or a small win against Pakistan will do followed by a fighting tight loss against Australia) the selectors will pat themselves on the back. If the results are worse, they will go to Dhoni and say, that was their plan anyway, its just come six months too early.

If Kumble had to be appointed captain only for the Pakistan series, Mr. Vengsarkar, it would have been better not to appoint him at all. We would have been better off with Dhoni as captain for the entire season. Surely, he will be the deputy and an injury to Kumble will throw him in the fray. Maybe we would discover a great captain as Nari Contractor's near-fatal injury did in the West Indies in early sixties. And Pataudi Sr was five years younger than Dhoni is today and had played only three test matches to Dhoni's twenty.

Maybe team India would have been mauled under Dhoni (though I doubt it) but if so we should have continued with him as we did with Pataudi Jr after that mauling in the West Indies 45 years ago and see what a gem we unearthed. Either throw him into the water and let him learn to swim by himself or let him be given a proper traing (read grooming) so that we justice to his undoubted leadership skills and also do not treat shoddily those who have given such yeomen service to the team and the game.
 
Last edited:

Top