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Thread: Thilan Samaraweera: a victim of black magic?

  1. #151
    International 12th Man
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    [QUOTE=Richard;1848554]OK, so first subcontinental pitches offer nothing to any bowlers, now they're turners. Make your mind up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Here's one for you: learn how to judge a cricketer rather than looking simplistically at a set of scorecards before trying to patronise those who know far more than you about the subject matter.

    To avoid embarrasment, obviously.
    The way you berrate Matthew Hayden's success clearly demonstrates that you do not know what you're talking about, but you constantly persist with that issue. Yet, you seem to remark us all by claiming that Younis Khan isn't far off Kallis or Ponting.

    I assess players on a certain class, not scorecards. If I relied on statistics then I'd rate Jayawardene, Sangakkara, Mohammad Yousuf, Graeme Smith, Thilan Samaraweera, Younis Khan, Michael Hussey and Adam Gilchrist as some of the best batsman of the modern era. Too me, it's just plain obvious that none of these players are in the same class as Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid and Hayden. You can see it when you watch them bat. To me, Pietersen is of the highest class. No other batsman has impressed me more at first sight then Kevin Pietersen. JP Duminy is in a similar vain but whether he lives up to his potential or not is another story

    Quote Originally Posted by Migara
    LMAO. Pietersen against Murali was an epic fail. Yes, first he bashed Murali around in three innings. But thereafter, it was plain and simple domination by Murali over Pietersen. His stats in that SL tour speak for him self. Lara Ponting and Tendulkar are way superior batsmen than Pietersen. Dravid also didn't do well against best of the spinners, notably Murali.

    Now everybody keeps bashing Mahela Jayawardane as a FTB. Out side subcontinet Jayawardane onlt averages 36.6 (without ZIM). Pietersen averages only 34.6 in the subcontinet and a great player. What f***king double standards?

    Once more some smartasses think that playing outsuide sub continent values more.
    Epic Fail? LOOOOOL! Pietersen played the most impressive shot off Murali that I've ever seen. He murdered Muralitharan. That comment is almost signature worthy.

    Playing outside the subcontient does offer more value, for subcontient batsman. As statistics show, only 3 subcontient batsman in the history of the game have averaged over 50 outside the subcontient.

  2. #152
    International Vice-Captain King Pietersen's Avatar
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    Pietersen also averaged over 50 against Muralitharan in England in 2006, hitting a massive 142 against him. Now if anything that's closer to KP owning Murali than the other way round, and 1 dismissal in a world cup game is not enough to suggest otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cricinfo
    38.3
    Styris to Pietersen, SIX, wow, what a shot, that is awesome...it's a repeat of his six off Muralitharan at Edgbaston, as he switches his grip and reverse-hits Styris over deep cover (or should that be deep square-leg) for a memorable maximum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cricinfo
    42.6
    Styris to Pietersen, SIX, that's the most extraordinary shot, he switches his grip to that of a left-hander and launches Stryis high over long-off for a might six. That is one of the more incredible shots you'll see

  3. #153
    Cricket Spectator Faceless void's Avatar
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    Ok that's it.
    Migara mate, lets drop it. It astounds me how some are immune to logic.
    I posted Hayden's and sanga's averages in an earlier post. Which i guess is invisible.
    You can prove with all kind of statistics that what you say is true but there will be a selected few who will never budge.
    I officially wash my hands off this topic.

  4. #154
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    The way you berrate Matthew Hayden's success clearly demonstrates that you do not know what you're talking about, but you constantly persist with that issue.
    I know what I'm talking about far better than anyone who blindly looks at "ooh, Hayden dominates crap seam-bowling and averages 70 between 2001/02 and 2004 and 60 between 2005/06 and 2007/08, he must be good".
    Yet, you seem to remark us all by claiming that Younis Khan isn't far off Kallis or Ponting.

    I assess players on a certain class, not scorecards. If I relied on statistics then I'd rate Jayawardene, Sangakkara, Mohammad Yousuf, Graeme Smith, Thilan Samaraweera, Younis Khan, Michael Hussey and Adam Gilchrist as some of the best batsman of the modern era. Too me, it's just plain obvious that none of these players are in the same class as Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid and Hayden. You can see it when you watch them bat. To me, Pietersen is of the highest class. No other batsman has impressed me more at first sight then Kevin Pietersen. JP Duminy is in a similar vain but whether he lives up to his potential or not is another story
    Assessing players on "a certain class when you watch them bat" is a notoriously unreliable method as this depends more on the ability of the bowlers than the batsman. If the bowling is inadaquete - and it mostly has been the last 7 years - then even a moderate batsman can look Godlike. The bowler controls the game, and it's how a batsman responds to high-quality bowling that demonstrates his ability best. How well he smashes the crap stuff is only a relatively minor aspect.

    This is assessed by watching the bowling and considering scores (and not just the number at the end of the innings, but what happened within). Not just one or just the other.

    It's pretty obvious to me that Hayden could not and never could counter high-quality seam-bowling, and to me anyone who refuses to acknowledge that either a) isn't looking hard enough or b) is just a blind Hayden fan who worships him because of the fact his success was so huge in Australia's success 2001/02-2006/07.
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  5. #155
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    or c) knows more about Cricket than you.
    I think there'll sooner be another Bradman than another Warne. - Gidgeon Haigh

    [Warne is] the greatest bowler ever produced in this entire world - Muttiah Muralidaran

    [Warne is] the greatest bowler of all time - Glenn McGrath


    In my opinion Shane Warne is the greatest cricketer who's ever lived - Ian Botham

    Warne is the greatest cricketer to pick up a ball ever.
    And is the greatest bowler I have ever laid eyes on. - Brian Lara

  6. #156
    International Debutant Evermind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faceless void View Post
    Sangakkara averages 65 in Australia and 67 in New Zealand yet only 24.8 in India. (in tests)

    Hayden Averages 58 in His own backyard, 28.14 in New Zealand yet has an average of 51 playing in India.

    Yet Sangakkara is the subcontinent flat track bully who cant even get close to Hayden-the greatest ever opener.

    Such words of wisdom!
    That's all I have to say about this topic.If the guy still keeps on arguing I'll consider him logic proof and get busy with revising physiology for the upcoming exam.
    Hmm...how did you manage to put ben91's x-ray into your avatar? Are you guys friends?
    Last edited by Evermind; 05-03-2009 at 08:23 AM.

  7. #157
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    or c) knows more about Cricket than you.
    No.

  8. #158
    State 12th Man 0RI0N's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=wfdu_ben91;1848724]
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    OK, so first subcontinental pitches offer nothing to any bowlers, now they're turners. Make your mind up.


    The way you berrate Matthew Hayden's success clearly demonstrates that you do not know what you're talking about, but you constantly persist with that issue. Yet, you seem to remark us all by claiming that Younis Khan isn't far off Kallis or Ponting.

    I assess players on a certain class, not scorecards. If I relied on statistics then I'd rate Jayawardene, Sangakkara, Mohammad Yousuf, Graeme Smith, Thilan Samaraweera, Younis Khan, Michael Hussey and Adam Gilchrist as some of the best batsman of the modern era. Too me, it's just plain obvious that none of these players are in the same class as Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid and Hayden. You can see it when you watch them bat. To me, Pietersen is of the highest class. No other batsman has impressed me more at first sight then Kevin Pietersen. JP Duminy is in a similar vain but whether he lives up to his potential or not is another story


    Epic Fail? LOOOOOL! Pietersen played the most impressive shot off Murali that I've ever seen. He murdered Muralitharan. That comment is almost signature worthy.

    Playing outside the subcontient does offer more value, for subcontient batsman. As statistics show, only 3 subcontient batsman in the history of the game have averaged over 50 outside the subcontient.
    /
    Okay I'll bite.
    Which 3 batsmen would that be?
    SM Gavaskar,SR Tendulkar and R Dravid?

  9. #159
    gwo
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0RI0N View Post
    Okay I'll bite.
    Which 3 batsmen would that be?
    SM Gavaskar,SR Tendulkar and R Dravid?
    if you took your time to read some of this thread, you would find the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    Yeah, these stats back me up perfectly.

    Cricinfo Statsguru - Test matches - Batting records
    heres some good advice from evermind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evermind View Post
    Here on CW, people generally read posts before theirs before they comment. I suggest you start doing the same, to avoid embarrassment.
    I would say to you, good guesses, but hey, the information was already in this thread.

  10. #160
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Haha, I see wfdu_ben91 has been initiated into the forum, arguing with Richard about Hayden. It's like surgery without anesthetic but more painful.
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  11. #161
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Jayawardene is a very impressive batsman, I haven't read all of Miagaras posts on him in here, so I don't know who he's rating him higher than, but he's right about the double standards in this example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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  12. #162
    State 12th Man 0RI0N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwo View Post
    if you took your time to read some of this thread, you would find the answer



    heres some good advice from evermind.



    I would say to you, good guesses, but hey, the information was already in this thread.
    /

    Listen here,I'l just read start reading from whatever page I want.Don't get your panties in a knot.
    Just calm your ass down,okay.
    Thank you.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I know what I'm talking about far better than anyone who blindly looks at "ooh, Hayden dominates crap seam-bowling and averages 70 between 2001/02 and 2004 and 60 between 2005/06 and 2007/08, he must be good".
    You clearly don't if you think that Pollock, Donald, Waqar, Shoaib, Bond, Ntini, Caddick, Flintoff, Sharma are all crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Assessing players on "a certain class when you watch them bat" is a notoriously unreliable method as this depends more on the ability of the bowlers than the batsman. If the bowling is inadaquete - and it mostly has been the last 7 years - then even a moderate batsman can look Godlike. The bowler controls the game, and it's how a batsman responds to high-quality bowling that demonstrates his ability best. How well he smashes the crap stuff is only a relatively minor aspect.

    This is assessed by watching the bowling and considering scores (and not just the number at the end of the innings, but what happened within). Not just one or just the other.
    So should Dravid and Tendulkar also be discredited because they failed in the most bowler friendly conditions in world cricket that featured quality bowlers (South Africa)? TBH, batsman that plays shot against quality bowlers are better then survivors that fend off and nudge the ball around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    It's pretty obvious to me that Hayden could not and never could counter high-quality seam-bowling, and to me anyone who refuses to acknowledge that either a) isn't looking hard enough or b) is just a blind Hayden fan who worships him because of the fact his success was so huge in Australia's success 2001/02-2006/07.
    He did numerous times. Every batsman has bowlers that they struggle against and most of them don't get 100's against bowlers that they struggle against him. Hayden always managed to get a hundred when the chips were down, against bowling that he was struggling against, that's what made him so great.

  14. #164
    Hall of Fame Member chaminda_00's Avatar
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    I have question for Ben91. With Sangakkara average 48 outside the SC, if he continues to increase the rate he has over the last three seasons. Went from low 40s to it current 48. Next series continuing on that progress, he may average over 50 outside the SC. If he does that make him a modern great?

    Also it should be noted that Dravid had about the same average outside the SC, as Sangakkara at the same stage in their careers. EDIT: It was Tendulkar that averaged 46.58 after 24 Tests outside Asia.
    Last edited by chaminda_00; 05-03-2009 at 11:09 PM.
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  15. #165
    International Captain Migara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    Epic Fail? LOOOOOL! Pietersen played the most impressive shot off Murali that I've ever seen. He murdered Muralitharan. That comment is almost signature worthy
    Proves that you have not been watching cricket. Pietersen managed it only in two innings. Then he was the bitch for Murali. He groped and struggled to read spin and flight after that. You have never seen the way Navjot Sidhu has played Murali and Warne. That would be the right definition of massacare. Azaruddin also played them beautifully. Pietersen, I would not rate him even in top 10 players of spin in last 30 years. Sidhu, Azhat, Sachin, Lara, Ganguly, Ranatunga, Gurusinghe, Miandad, Salim Malik are the best of examples to players who took spinners to cleaners. They have done it much regularly than Pietersen.

    Piece of advice, see how those playes hammered spnners, and how impressive their shots were. Then we'll talk.
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