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South Africa Threaten England Tour

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
South Africa are threatening not to tour england this summer because of security concerns.

In response to England's stance on their World Cup match in Harare, Untited Cricket Board of South Africa president Percy Sonn said: "There are a lot of problems in England. We will have to look at their secuirty as well - we will not send our boys into a place we consider to be unsafe"

Yeah like what? Lack of sun? Too much rain? It seems pretty rich coming from a country which has the honour of Johannesburg having the highest crime rate in the world!

Also if they don't tour they will really upset Langeveldt :lol:
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Yeah like what? Lack of sun? Too much rain? It seems pretty rich coming from a country which has the honour of Johannesburg having the highest crime rate in the world!
Well notwithstanding that this is probably brinkmanship, England has suddenly become a target for a terrorist attack with your alliance with the US and of course there was the ricin found recently.

Considering the current political climate and England's stance on the 'War on Terror', its a question which has to be asked. Sure, London is probably relatively safe but it's far from being TOTALLY safe right now and as soon as the coalition attacks Iraq in March, well the safety question will be more pointed. Remember; just because it hasn't happen to England yet doesn't mean it won't. Need I remind you Sept 11th. I bet the people in NY and America thought THEY were totally safe too.............of course it was a mistaken belief. And that being the case, maybe your belief is also mistaken somewhat? Who knows.

Your incredulity is mirrored by the people of Nairobi, I'd bet. I'd say THEY can't understand why another country wouldn't want to tour their very modern city.
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
You have a point but I already thought of that and came to the conclusion it's probably just South Africa trying to get back at England for forfitting their game against Zimbabwe. The problem is Zimbabwe is being run by a facist dictator...England is being run by a clown. There is a distinct difference.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
You have a point but I already thought of that and came to the conclusion it's probably just South Africa trying to get back at England for forfitting their game against Zimbabwe.
Well I already said that in my first sentence. :)

Either way, I've in read several places about the rise in violent crime in England ever since you guys instituted tough gun laws a few years ago. The crime rate in Australia has gone in a similar direction, too.

So overall, London's crime rate is in the vicinity of some of the worst places. Where Jo'burg leads the way is in GUN deaths. Surely, no-one will ever top that.
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
Top_Cat said:
Well I already said that in my first sentence. :)

Either way, I've in read several places about the rise in violent crime in England ever since you guys instituted tough gun laws a few years ago. The crime rate in Australia has gone in a similar direction, too.

So overall, London's crime rate is in the vicinity of some of the worst places. Where Jo'burg leads the way is in GUN deaths. Surely, no-one will ever top that.
London is pretty bad in the place I used to live, Clapham/Brixton. But that is nowhere near the grounds and it's just the South African board being petty now. Although there have been some murders lately there is a stable political situation and it's hard to see anyone sending death threats to touring teams. I'm sorry but it's just not done round here. If I was the ECB I would just tell the South African board to grow up.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Wonder what the Deputy Chief of Police In South Afrcia would say about this (after he laughed off the death threats)
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
marc71178 said:
Wonder what the Deputy Chief of Police In South Afrcia would say about this (after he laughed off the death threats)
I've never seen anyone laugh off a death threat before. It doesn't matter if you recieve them all the time, you still follow them up.
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
marc71178 said:
I guess you never saw the press conference with him?
What I said actually showed that I had seen the press conference...that's why I said...and I quote: "I've never seen anyone laugh off a death threat before"
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
I think that we successfully predicted this yesterday.

Oh well. Maybe we can play a couple of series against Canada and Holland.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Well if you havent noticed, SA do not give a monkeys about what happens in Zimbabwe. White farmer? What white farmer!??
England will not play in Zimbabwe so SA lose money because Zim might pull out from the WC. SA decide to play tit for tat so they threaten not to go to England due to the money they may lose.
Trust me, I dont think this is a security issue. I dont think Andrew Hall who survived a shooting in Joburg would have any worries about going to Nottingham or Lords. (And yes Joburg is statistically the most dangerous place outside a warzone, but its still beautiful!)
I have lost a lot of respect for guys like Ngconde Balfour and Percy Sonn, who continuously talk a load of c***. If they had their way, well I wont comment on what would happen or it might offend some people....
Oh well the guys keep playing entertaining cricket and they will rise above all this...Im confident they will tour England..









Rik said:
South Africa are threatening not to tour england this summer because of security concerns.

In response to England's stance on their World Cup match in Harare, Untited Cricket Board of South Africa president Percy Sonn said: "There are a lot of problems in England. We will have to look at their secuirty as well - we will not send our boys into a place we consider to be unsafe"

Yeah like what? Lack of sun? Too much rain? It seems pretty rich coming from a country which has the honour of Johannesburg having the highest crime rate in the world!

Also if they don't tour they will really upset Langeveldt :lol:
 

full_length

U19 Vice-Captain
They'll probably end up touring.
And England may well end up getting away with not playing Zimbabwe.

Is there any chance England changes mind and goes to Zimbabwe?
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
full_length said:
They'll probably end up touring.
And England may well end up getting away with not playing Zimbabwe.

Is there any chance England changes mind and goes to Zimbabwe?


No England definitely wont be going to Zim, pity because a lot of work went into the Harare Sports club, and the ground looked a picture last time I saw it...
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
Langeveldt said:
No England definitely wont be going to Zim, pity because a lot of work went into the Harare Sports club, and the ground looked a picture last time I saw it...
Yeah they said they love playing at Harare, it is indeed a lovely ground and the home of WCC's Mashonaland...managed by...ME! :D8D
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
full_length said:
They'll probably end up touring.
And England may well end up getting away with not playing Zimbabwe.

Is there any chance England changes mind and goes to Zimbabwe?
They're still working at playing it later in the Tournament if at all possible, but where - how about Outer Mongolia?
 

PY

International Coach
Comparing England to Zimbabwe at the moment is a particularly bad joke on the UCBSA's part. We have a stable "regime" in our country, we don't have a HORRIFIC human rights record except for possibly our treatment of students :!( :!(. We actually recognise the threat that we have incurred by supporting USA, (as shown by the 450 soldiers, 1000(mostly armed) extra police at Heathrow atm) and surely comparing the state of affairs in England with Zimbabwe is a joke. Think this could turn into a ****ing contest between the ECB and UCBSA. Hope ECB just say whatever and get on with it because South Africa will end up. touring. Thought it was a bit of disgrace that the copper laughed at the deaththreats on international television because it had had the England team in tears so it obviously meant something to them.
 

full_length

U19 Vice-Captain
If the threats really had the English team in tears.. boy! I think that's very wierd.

If the cop was actually laughing at the particular threat there probably wasnt anything to it at all. Cops *never* trivialise a serious threat. It's absolutely not in their interests to do so. Everyone from top to bottom will come down on them like a ton of bricks should anything go wrong.

If the English think that comparing the security scenario in England and Zimbabwe is an insult to them, they can go hang. The ICC has commented on the security issue in Zimbabwe and says unequivocally that there is no threat whatsoever to these high profile visitors. You have to trust something! All I see is a highly melodramatic media utterly confused about the whole issue- as to whether the refusal has anything to do with the morality and security aspects of things.


I don't think the SA team has reason to be worried about their safety in England. But if SL, Zim, Pakistan are bad places to play cricket in , I dont sympathise specially with the English at all.
The ECB and NZCU are dragging themselves and everyone through the mud.
 

full_length

U19 Vice-Captain
Most of all what stinks here is the kind of comments that come out from all quarters, and the general attitude:

- well the Lankans may not see any problems playing in Lanka afterall they are used to it. We the Aussies and the West Indians are not used to violence where we come from <chin at 45 degrees> , said by all and sundry in the 1996 WC leadup including the redoubtable Mark Taylor. The Aussies pointed at a colombo bomblast to say that "see we are not used to all this" though coincidentally there was a bomb blast of eerily similar destruction in Australia at about the same time.

- i cant shop without fear in Lanka, said by one Shane Warne in 1996 who then went on to hitch a ride in Pakistan with locals, outside the security net.

- constant statements about how they are going to check the security arrangements personally in a country they are going to travel. No, they cant take the word of the security officials of the host country (kinda strange becauase these officials simply cannot afford to let any visitor get hurt- their jobs, the image of their country, permission to host any world event all in balance every single tour). What's more, after verifying security arrangements and finding them alright, choosing to tour remains the board's prerogative. They dont make their 'findings' or their nature public. They end up defaming and insulting the nation they are 'considering' touring. They finally may or may not listen to the security advice. One hoax or a threat can reduce their players to tears and they wont tour!

Think from the point of view of the officials who have spent so much time, effort, money on organizing the event and have so many expectations built up. Don't they deserve a better reason? When the security officials of the host country and the security officials of the ICC assess that the players arent in danger, and the visitors still pull out, what do you think they are thinking? And then there are the natural statements of "in our place we dont see all these bombings and violence. they are used to living like that. etc. etc." I dont think Kenya or Zimbabwe will be complaining if there is an open threat assessed by the officials at home, or from the ICC.


Never mind that at the 1996 WC the organizers even offered to fly the teams directly to the PRemadasa Stadium from Madras, clear kilometers around the stadium 72 hours before the matches, make sure that nobody will need to set foot outside the stadium, search every single spectator a couple of hours before the match, and even arranged hastily a match between an combined India-Pakistan team vs SL to demonstrate that they think it is safe enough. What's more, Warne didnt have to do any shopping! That was still not enough. They cited a bomb blast in Colombo in a bank ( i think) before the WC and pulled out.
They went on to tour England though the IRA had just blasted a bomb in London ahead of the Ashes. There the security threat was not an issue. Hell, I remember even the terrorist organization the threat was from actually isued a statement that they will NOT target cricketers and the WC!


There's simply a whole lot of snobbishness, and very significant cultural differences between nations that widens each day.
In the subcontinent, people feel insulted about these comments and this behaviour, and dont see any problem in giving it back by refusing to tour. (thats what SA wants to do now.) Aus-Eng-NZ dont see a position of equality in the first place and bristle at the thought of a comparison with the Asian and African countries. So just see brinksmanship and fail to understand that the anger comes as a result of insulting comments like Taylor's and Warne's.



All I'd like to say is that sooner than later this attitude is going to catch up with them. The precedents being set today may well end up a kick on the chin later.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
It doesnt surprise me that the SA police officer ended up laughing the death threats off. He is probably dead right when he says he gets "20 of those threats a day". I suppose working for the SAPS is a often a traumatic experience, but he could have been more sensitive to those guys who have no experience when dealing with hoaxes/genuine threats. I never knew the threats left the English players in tears though. bit of c*** interviewing there from the policeman
 

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