Flintoff was drunk

[Lillian Thomson]

Maybe poor old Duncan just trying to sell his book........slurp.

I'll 'ave 'arf

 

[gettingbetter]

Who knows TBH. But I think for the time being I'll lean towards Dunc's side - Flintoff's antics are well known.

The one thing that is sort of stalling me favoring Dunc 100% is why it was not made public there and then - I don't remember the situation surrounding the situation at the WC (as in who discovered it), but when Symonds was caught in 2005, the Australian team came out and expelled him.

 

[four_or_six]

Don't think "I am coach and chief selector on tour, my captain and key player was drunk, and I did nothing about it" says a lot for his credentials really. Why on earth was this going on during what was supposed to be the pinacle of these guys careers?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Flintoff > Symonds in so many ways. It's understandable why they would want to cover up such things. Especially given that the bulk occurred during such a disastrous campaign.

 

[gettingbetter]

True.

I was sort of leaning towards a no tolerance policy by Australia rather than the prestige of the player though.

 

[Poker Boy]

Not really a surprise - there were stories at the time that the "Fredalo" affair was not the first instance - but Fletcher should have disciplined him at the start - as the Ausies did with Symonds in 2005 - then he might have got the message before the WC started.

 

[Manee]

This just backs up my theory (which I haven't mentioned on these forums before) that Flintoff should have taken extended leave from the game for his ankle to fully heal, remoddling of his action and dealing with his alcoholism.

But, I guess hindsight is 20/20.

 

[kiwipostereborn]

Flintoff isn't that great a test cricket anyway, Overrated for his two year great form period.

Otherwise he is hardly a good test batsman and has a bowling average over 30.

Great odi player but extremely overrated in tests. I guess he wasted his talent on Alcohol.

 

[Richard]

at psxpro.

Either way, I'm completely in favour of such things being hushed-up at the time they happen, all that'll happen if they're made public is people coming-out with more bull**** about disharmony in the camp or some other rubbish along those lines. I'd not have had any problem had the same thing happened with Symonds at Bristol. If people think properly, they'll remember that countless hundreds of people did indeed try to work that incident into an "it's all going wrong for them" with Australia in those few days. They shrugged it off - England didn't, and had a disastrous tour until the last 4 games.

As to why was it going on - ask Flintoff, not DF. If he really has been as irresponsible as first glance makes it look, it almost beggars belief. We all thought he'd gained more sense than that many years ago.

 

[social]

Fletcher comes across as an egomaniacal prat

"He let me down" - get real, if he let anybody down, it was himself and his team-mates.

However, given that they won the series in question (this happened in the odis remember) it would seem that it had zero impact.

This is nothing more than an attempt to sell a book via character assassination

 

[Burgey]

This just backs up my theory (which I haven't mentioned on these forums before) that Flintoff should have taken extended leave from the game for his ankle to fully heal, remoddling of his action and dealing with his alcoholism.

But, I guess hindsight is 20/20.

WTF?

He may be a grog monster when he's on the cans, but it doesn't mean he's an alcoholic (unless I've missed something where he's come out and admitted as much).

 

[Manee]

He may be a grog monster when he's on the cans, but it doesn't mean he's an alcoholic (unless I've missed something where he's come out and admitted as much).

Not sure of the exact terminology but if it takes over your professional life then it is a problem.

 

[Athlai]

Not sure of the exact terminology but if it takes over your professional life then it is a problem.

AWTA if it interferes with your professional life then it's a problem. Yet it doesn't need to be made public, but it has happened a lot with Flintoff it seems and the little slaps on the wrist he's been getting hasn't been doing anything.

If there is a next time you'd think they'd have to seriously consider axing him.

 

[Richard]

Not sure of the exact terminology but if it takes over your professional life then it is a problem.

It may be a problem of some sort (or it may just be a few isolated incidents at the worst possible times) but it's certainly nothing remotely close to alcoholism.

 

[Richard]

Fletcher comes across as an egomaniacal prat

"He let me down" - get real, if he let anybody down, it was himself and his team-mates.

However, given that they won the series in question (this happened in the odis remember) it would seem that it had zero impact.

This is nothing more than an attempt to sell a book via character assassination

If he comes accross as an egomaniacal prat one must question your skills of character judgement. It didn't have zero impact - whether they won the series or not is completely irrelevant (and it's not like the victory was anything but a complete freak anyway). And yes, Flintoff did indeed let himself, and his team-mates down - and also Duncan Fletcher.

 

[Manee]

It may be a problem of some sort (or it may just be a few isolated incidents at the worst possible times) but it's certainly nothing remotely close to alcoholism.

Ok, sorry for my error.

In common and historic usage, alcoholism refers to any condition that results in the continued consumption of alcoholic beverages despite the health problems and negative social consequences it causes.

No health problems but I feel that social can be used to describe his cricketing career. But I am not gonna argue with you over the exact meaning of a vague term.

 

[Craig]

AWTA if it interferes with your professional life then it's a problem. Yet it doesn't need to be made public, but it has happened a lot with Flintoff it seems and the little slaps on the wrist he's been getting hasn't been doing anything.

If there is a next time you'd think they'd have to seriously consider axing him.

Wouldn't sending him to AA or then rehab be the next step, but if nothing gets better...

 

[Athlai]

Wouldn't sending him to AA or then rehab be the next step, but if nothing gets better...

Definitely not our place to say I think, but the English side would have to take some action IMO, and if the cricket is what's most important to Flintoff than his decision should reflect that.

 

[Manee]

If he comes accross as an egomaniacal prat one must question your skills of character judgement. It didn't have zero impact - whether they won the series or not is completely irrelevant (and it's not like the victory was anything but a complete freak anyway). And yes, Flintoff did indeed let himself, and his team-mates down - and also Duncan Fletcher.

Reading both of their autobiographies, Kevin Pietersen is certainly more egotistical than Flintoff. But this may say more about KP than Freddie.

 

[Richard]

Ok, sorry for my error.



No health problems but I feel that social can be used to describe his cricketing career. But I am not gonna argue with you over the exact meaning of a vague term.

Basically, alcoholism is to do with addiction to alcohol. Alcohol can cause all sorts of problems without the problematic being specifically addicted.