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New Zealands big problem and a possible solution

Raghav

International Vice-Captain
I think if you look at the last 3 appearances in semi-finals for NZ, you have to say on all occasions they were beaten by a better side.
In the Twenty20, Pakistan deserve to be in the final, the middle order has been very impressive, and the bowlers have regularly kept it tight (in twenty20 terms).
The last World Cup NZ were beaten by an exceptional Sri Lanka one-day side, who set an imposing 289, a total that puts any side under pressure to knock off.
The Champions Trophy, Australia beat them, and to be fair they beat everybody when it's important (barring this Twenty20 blip).
You Kiwis will not more than me about whether its down to mental strength, looking on from the outside, I would suggest that they have been beaten by better teams, who will perhaps beat New Zealand more often than not.
Agree with 100%. Love this one
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yes. And today is 2007, not 2005!

2007-24(35-11)=1983

Mind you, I always get confused with the school years as I was moved up and down and round and round a few times. Pretty sure it wasn't 1981 though... I'm pretty sure Toto had ridden the charts with "Africa" in the lead up to the summer in question - which may suggest it was 82/83.

Bloody hell, I'm easily confused.
 

bond21

Banned
It is obvious what their problem is.

They lack quality bowlers. Everybody knows BOWLERS WIN MATCHES.

NZ could get 700 runs first innings for all I care, no point if the bowlers cant bowl the other side out.

Bond and Vettori are their only real top quality bowlers.

They bowl Oram too much, Oram is not a good bowler. he hobbles in and bowls medium pacers that dont swing, are not accurate and get clobbered.

Bond has probably broken down so much because hes got to do all their bowling.
 

Flem274*

123/5
It is obvious what their problem is.

They lack quality bowlers. Everybody knows BOWLERS WIN MATCHES.

NZ could get 700 runs first innings for all I care, no point if the bowlers cant bowl the other side out.

Bond and Vettori are their only real top quality bowlers.

They bowl Oram too much, Oram is not a good bowler. he hobbles in and bowls medium pacers that dont swing, are not accurate and get clobbered.

Bond has probably broken down so much because hes got to do all their bowling.
Excellent point. And the thing is, they won't try other guys. I'm quite excited about Patel, Scott, McMillan, Bennet and O'Brien but they just won't use them. The guys coming through the ranks like Southee, Sherlock, Harvie and Anderson all have great potential as well.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Oram is not always inaccurate. He's well capable of being a good block-up bowler in Tests (which can be afforded given that he's also a capable batsman) and UIMM he's good at bowling long spells so can also fill a stock-bowler role.

What's more, with his height he can be a very useful wicket-taker on a greentop, if New Zealand ever remember what one of those is.
 

pasag

RTDAS
Oram is not always inaccurate. He's well capable of being a good block-up bowler in Tests (which can be afforded given that he's also a capable batsman) and UIMM he's good at bowling long spells so can also fill a stock-bowler role.

What's more, with his height he can be a very useful wicket-taker on a greentop, if New Zealand ever remember what one of those is.
Tests? :p

Anyways, I don't see what the problem is here, NZ do well and constant punch above their weight and full credit to them for that. I think you need to look at the positive side of them getting far in tournaments which is quite respectable as opposed to the pessimism of them not taking the whole things out.

Re: Perm and playing sport, I'm sorry mate I can't agree with that mentality. You play for the fun and if that's not there then quite frankly, there's no point and the whole activity becomes rather meaningless. In every level of every sport. Winning is connected to that as well but should be more of a by-product. My fondest game as captain of an indoor cricket side for example wasn't in a win but in a one run loss where they scored a four off the last ball to win. Plus many other personal examples both playing and watching sport. Could post a heap more about this, but will leave it at that.
 
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Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Re: Perm and playing sport, I'm sorry mate I can't agree with that mentality. You play for the fun and if that's not there then quite frankly, there's no point and the whole activity becomes rather meaningless. In every level of every sport. Winning is connected to that as well but should be more of a by-product. My fondest game as captain of an indoor cricket side for example wasn't in a win but in a one run loss where they scored a four off the last ball to win. Plus many other personal examples both playing and watching sport. Could post a heap more about this, but will leave it at that.
Are you sure you're Australian? :p I thought all of you mob had the must-win attitude regarding sport. I'll play a sport if I enjoy it, but it will be much, much more enjoyable if I, or my team wins, IMO. I'm not saying that people should play a sport they hate just because they're good at it, but the thing I can't agree with, and is something we see quite often in New Zealand society, is people playing competitive sport and not caring about the result.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Yeah, they seem to have forgotten what a Test on a green-top is. It's a shame, as that's supposed to be what touring New Zealand is mostly about, as touring India and Sri Lanka is supposed to be about being tested against spin.
Anyways, I don't see what the problem is here, NZ do well and constant punch above their weight and full credit to them for that. I think you need to look at the positive side of them getting far in tournaments which is quite respectable as opposed to the pessimism of them not taking the whole things out.
It's frustrating, though, surely, to be constant bridesmaids? And doubly so when you're always cast in the "punching above your weight but can't land the really big hits", especially given that, like most stereotypes, it's not always been true.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Yeah, they seem to have forgotten what a Test on a green-top is. It's a shame, as that's supposed to be what touring New Zealand is mostly about, as touring India and Sri Lanka is supposed to be about being tested against spin.

It's frustrating, though, surely, to be constant bridesmaids? And doubly so when you're always cast in the "punching above your weight but can't land the really big hits", especially given that, like most stereotypes, it's not always been true.
People know now not to mention that stereotype when I'm in the same room now, because I really get stuck into them for ages if they say that. Being bridesmaids pisses me off to the extreme, and then you get the "They worked hard and punched above their weight, well done on getting this far." attitude. It's so damn patronising, even if they don't really mean it to sound so. I wanna win god damn it.

Geez I'm an angry man sometimes
 

armchairumpire

U19 Cricketer
From an outusider, NZ cricket seems to have a couple of 'issues', most of which have been well documented before, but let me give you my 'spin' on them.

1 The Blackcaps supposedly 'punch above their weight', so when they 'nearly' get into the finals this is used to passify frustrated Blackcap supporters. OK so NZ only has a population of 4 million people and 40 million sheep, the winner of the Australian 4 day competition - Tasmania only has 484,700. That is only 10 percent of the NZ population, and last season Tasmania produced the best Australian cricketer and indeed international cricketer of the year Ricky Ponting, and the best new Australian talent, Ben Hilfenhaus. Indeed, 5 of the initial 30 man Australian squad for the Twenty20 WC were Tasmanians. Should New Zealand cricket be checking out how the Tasmanians get that winning cricket edge?

2 There appears to be a lack of 'depth'. Maybe there are too many teams in the provincial competition in NZ but the creation of a Trans Tasman domestic competition would provide more genuine competition and the development of a larger pool of players for NZ.

3 The NZ Rugby team is 'too successful'. The All Blacks have set up expectations for other sports in NZ, particularly cricket.

However, for all of this I really enjoy watching the Blackcaps play (as long as they're not beating Australia) and encourage New Zealand cricket to try harder to market the team and the game generally in NZ. They are a far better looking bunch than their counterparts accross the Tasman (no posts about Scott Styris please).
 
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Macka

U19 Vice-Captain
Oram is not always inaccurate. He's well capable of being a good block-up bowler in Tests (which can be afforded given that he's also a capable batsman) and UIMM he's good at bowling long spells so can also fill a stock-bowler role.

What's more, with his height he can be a very useful wicket-taker on a greentop, if New Zealand ever remember what one of those is.
Oram [bowling on a greentop] is like McGrath [bowling anywhere]!
 

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