Trobriand Cricket

[marc71178]

Calcutta, 19/01/02.

Trescothick smashing England to victory 121 off 109 balls then LBW to one that pitched a foot or so outside leg?

 

[Bazza]

Ooh yeah I remember that one!

Anyway this is not an issue anymore - the elite panel has both eliminated bias and improved the standard in umpiring, and I think over the next couple of years it will continue to improve.

 

[Gotchya]

j/k?

I think it means Joke!

Just Kidding there

However the words pot, kettle and black spring to mind coming from a Pakistani!

hahaha ! indeed :baddevil: but I think it was Imran Khan who rallied for neutral umpires the very first time.

I was referring to Indian bias. I simply cant forget that Pakistan/India test match, Kumble bagging 10 wickets ?

Good as a bowler as Kumble might be, he's not a 10 wicket an innings bowler.

 

[aussie_beater]

Well, what about Harbajan's hattrick when he had warne out caught in close in off a bump ball. That was replayed on various talk/comedy shows in australia as if it were some sort of joke that international umpiring could be so poor

That was not a bump ball....not by any stretch of imagination.Just because the Aussies complained about it, doesn't mean diddly-squat.I have seen that scene hundreds of times as I have a video of that match at home and it was the right decision.

 

[aussie_beater]

Calcutta, 19/01/02.

Trescothick smashing England to victory 121 off 109 balls then LBW to one that pitched a foot or so outside leg?

Yes that was a bad decision. But bad decisions happen everywhere and if it were called bias, then world cricket cannot be played the way it is, any more.

Remember the Nottingham test between SA and Eng in 1998 which SA lost due to an inspired batting performance from Atherton and Atherton was given not out in a decision that was as dubious as they come when Atherton clearly gloved a snorter from Donald and Boucher lapped it. These are mistakes and they have happened everywhere.

 

[aussie_beater]

I was referring to Indian bias. I simply cant forget that Pakistan/India test match, Kumble bagging 10 wickets ?

And how about "bias" in Pakistan, if you really want to call these sort of things as "bias" which I don't really think it is.

1987 tour by England ? 1989 tour by Australia ? I don't have to get into each incident in those tours, but hope this would suffice that both the tours were in danger of being cancelled midway through the series due to those controversies.

And that match in 1999 in Delhi between India and Pak had one decision, that of Afridi in the second innings which was questionable. The other one that was publicised was the LBW of Ijaz Ahmed or Youhana(I don't remember exactly), was a borderline decision very similar to the one in the first innings in which Tendulkar got out off Saqlain.

 

[Gotchya]

And how about "bias" in Pakistan, if you really want to call these sort of things as "bias" which I don't really think it is.

1987 tour by England ? 1989 tour by Australia ? I don't have to get into each incident in those tours, but hope this would suffice that both the tours were in danger of being cancelled midway through the series due to those controversies.

And that match in 1999 in Delhi between India and Pak had one decision, that of Afridi in the second innings which was questionable. The other one that was publicised was the LBW of Ijaz Ahmed or Youhana(I don't remember exactly), was a borderline decision very similar to the one in the first innings in which Tendulkar got out off Saqlain.

hah ! No way ! It was biased. Wether you accept it or not. Atleast three decisions made by Jayprakash were very injudicious. And the manner in which he gave batsmen out was embarassing even for me ! stutters punctuated with hesitant hand raising. The same Kumble was looking mediocre before the ends were 'swithced' to the favourable end. Sure 400+ is a difficult task but it was a disgrace watching those decisions.

And I say bias because of the utter frequency of these 'errors'. You may quote a few examples from here and there, but there are far too many of them involving India and that too in recent times.

An excerpt : "Of course they(Pakistani's) got a couple of rough umpiring decisions - the first two in fact. This should spark off a debate over whether home umpires should figure in Tests. It seems a pretty archaic practice and should be reevaluated just so that visiting teams don't feel intentionally done in and any mistake can be attributed purely to error. "


These reports confirm that :

http://statserver.cricket.org/link_...SCORECARDS/PAK_IND_T2_04-08FEB1999_CI_MR.html

[url]http://statserver.cricket.org...ORECARDS/PAK_IND_T2_04-08FEB1999_DAWN_MR.html[/url]

 

[aussie_beater]

And I say bias because of the utter frequency of these 'errors'. You may quote a few examples from here and there, but there are far too many of them involving India and that too in recent times.

Not a few examples....I can quote as many examples elsewhere as you can quote on India.

Yes to a Pakistani eye, almost all decisions look to be biased in India and the same happens the other way when India are playing in Pakistan.In the two reports that you mentioned, the first one actually confirms what I said earlier.Only one decision..that of Ijaz Ahmed...was probably wrong and the only other one, that of Youhana was debatable but nothing can be said for sure.And those were the only two.And it also says that Tendulkar got out to a similar decision in the first innings to Saqlain.There goes your "bias" theory. And the Dawn report is a Pakistani perspective which is anyway going to claim that the whole match was biased.

I can quote numerous such issues in Pakistan, in Australia over the years, and almost everywhere else.

 

[marc71178]

Remember the Nottingham test between SA and Eng in 1998 which SA lost due to an inspired batting performance from Atherton and Atherton was given not out in a decision that was as dubious as they come when Atherton clearly gloved a snorter from Donald and Boucher lapped it. These are mistakes and they have happened everywhere.

But that wasn't a home town umpire, it was the dodgy ICC one!

 

[Gotchya]

Not a few examples....I can quote as many examples elsewhere as you can quote on India.

A string of bad decisions within a single series against the visiting team?

Yes to a Pakistani eye, almost all decisions look to be biased in India and the same happens the other way when India are playing in Pakistan.In the two reports that you mentioned, the first one actually confirms what I said earlier.Only one decision..that of Ijaz Ahmed...was probably wrong and the only other one, that of Youhana was debatable but nothing can be said for sure.And those were the only two.And it also says that Tendulkar got out to a similar decision in the first innings to Saqlain.There goes your "bias" theory. And the Dawn report is a Pakistani perspective which is anyway going to claim that the whole match was biased.

I can quote numerous such issues in Pakistan, in Australia over the years, and almost everywhere else.

Hardly that issue here. I saw the match with a bias yes, but in retrospect I will never blame anyone of something that is simply not there. Umpires do sometimes become biased, in every country. It seems to happen far too often in India. Anyhow, It is my own opinion (not a biased pakistani one !) that bias does play a part in Indian home cricket more often then elsewhere. You can disagree with me perfectly.

 

[aussie_beater]

A string of bad decisions within a single series against the visiting team?

Yes. the 1991 series between India and Aus down under, the 1987 and 1988-89 tour to Pakistan by ENgland and Aus respectively....the 2001 England tour to SL, the 1986 Pak tour to SL, the 1999 India tour to Aus.....and the list goes on.

Actually umpiring has been used as an excuse by losing teams for way too long and specially by visiting teams to the subcontinent...and that's what it is...just an excuse to hide the incompetence.

 

[aussie_beater]

But that wasn't a home town umpire, it was the dodgy ICC one!

Yes that was the neutral guy although as I remember that series had some more bad decisions coming from Peter Willey who is a hometown boy.

Actually hometown umpires have given atrocious decisions against home side players as well.I have mentioned a few of those cases in my earlier posts in this thread, and there are many more that I can remember, which goes on to show that its just a matter of poor umpiring rather then any kind of bias.

 

[Rik]

Well over here the umpiring's been quite bad lately. Remember the no-ball storm 2 years ago when Pakisan played here? And Shep is one of the best 3 umpires in the world in my opinion...

 

[Gotchya]

Actually umpiring has been used as an excuse by losing teams for way too long and specially by visiting teams to the subcontinent...and that's what it is...just an excuse to hide the incompetence.

Awww come on !!!!

 

[Gotchya]

Well over here the umpiring's been quite bad lately. Remember the no-ball storm 2 years ago when Pakisan played here? And Shep is one of the best 3 umpires in the world in my opinion...

Yeah....that was pretty stupid.

 

[aussie_beater]

Awww come on !!!!

Yeah, like Top_Cat said earlier, teams actually losing a match just due to umpiring have been very very rare.....but teams complaining about umpiring after losing a match have been a common fixture over the years.

 

[Rik]

Yeah, like Top_Cat said earlier, teams actually losing a match just due to umpiring have been very very rare.....but teams complaining about umpiring after losing a match have been a common fixture over the years.

I think the Trescothick LBW is a case of umpiring costing a team the match but the other batsmen should have done better and Trescothick might have got out shortly afterwards. But we will never know.

One of the biggest uproars was in Sri Lanka about BC Cooray who angered not only the English players, fans and press but also the Sri Lankians...

 

[Bazza]

That guy was a joke. :rolleyes:

 

[Rik]

That guy was a joke. :rolleyes:

A bad one at that...

 

[marc71178]

Yes. the 1991 series between India and Aus down under, the 1987 and 1988-89 tour to Pakistan by ENgland and Aus respectively....the 2001 England tour to SL, the 1986 Pak tour to SL, the 1999 India tour to Aus.....and the list goes on.

Actually umpiring has been used as an excuse by losing teams for way too long and specially by visiting teams to the subcontinent...and that's what it is...just an excuse to hide the incompetence.

Funny thing is we actually won in spite of it in SL!