Javed Miandad

[Richard]

All I've ever heard is that one bad (I think it's fairly certain rather than mere speculation) decision against Sikander in 1982, myself.

 

[Bouncer]

There was more controvery than one decision against IS in 1982....unfortunately i do not remember them all..... Infact it was to the point that if i m not mistaking, Pakistani Manager ( haseeb ahsan, if i m not wrong) made a written request before the 87 tour to not to appoint David in the series....that request was not accepeted and David got to stand in not one but two final test matches.....and in Oval where England Managed to save game and many of Abdul Qadir's (who took 7 wickets in first inning, but could get more than 3 on final day wicket ) appeal got turned down

 

[Lillian Thomson]

All I've ever heard is that one bad (I think it's fairly certain rather than mere speculation) decision against Sikander in 1982, myself.

Constant admitted he got that wrong himself. He also didn't endear himself to Pakistan in the 1979 World Cup Semi-Final against the West Indies including the final wicket which he gave out caught behind when the bat was no where near the ball, he then grabbed the bails and scarpered off the field like a frightened rabbit. Pakistan were not going to win but it appeared to them that Constant just wanted to get it over with even though he knew it wasn't out.

 

[Richard]

So once again then, as in the Hair-Sri Lanka case, it may be a case of not racial bias, but some amount of good reason to feel aggrieved with one individual.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

So once again then, as in the Hair-Sri Lanka case, it may be a case of not racial bias, but some amount of good reason to feel aggrieved with one individual.

In fact there was also a famous not out LBW when Quadir was bowling to Botham in 1982. He hit him full toss on the boot in front of middle stump but Constant gave it not out because he reckoned he would have been guessing whether or not the ball would have turned. The common opinion was that it was so full that it would have hit even if it had turned. Although I do recall Benaud sticking up for Constant.

 

[Richard]

Can anyone enlighten me exactly what Constant's crimes were to arouse such strong feelings from the Pakistanis?

Well you had to wait a month, but you got it eventually.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Well you had to wait a month, but you got it eventually.

Not all of are here everyday...........or even every month.

 

[Richard]

Just for clarity, that post wasn't intended as a criticism of anyone.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Just for clarity, that post wasn't intended as a criticism of anyone.

Mine was.

 

[Richard]

I noticed.

 

[Bouncer]

No I had not heard that one.

By the way the umpiring in India Pakistan matches was abominable , in both countries. Imran has written in his book about how poor the umpiring w even in Pakistan and he minces no words in calling it blatant cheating. All credit to him for bring the person to keep insisting on neutral umpires. He writes in his book that he did not feel good about the sheen of the Pakistani team's good performances being lost due to blatantly biased umpiring.

Here you go SJS

Here is the video clip of what I mentioned to you about over 5 years ago

Pakistan ANGRY at Indian umpires & Sunil Gavaskar - YouTube

Actually the reason i asked you was to find out if u noticed Javed's wittiness ......when India toured Pak in 1989-90...one of cricket magazine is Pak did interviews of members of Pak team that toured India in 87....alot of inside stories were shared in that special edition...one of them was from Touseef Ahmed recalled that the umpiring level in particularly from Ramaswamy was so bad that it frustrate Pak team to an un believable level..many decisions went in home team favor, so it was decided by Pak team that if u let umpires do what they were doing (not making honest decisions) they will do anything to not let india lose.....so a decision was made that someone from Pak side will start argument with umpires and will try to un-settle them..to give him message that, they just can not go on doing what they were doing and can not keep on giving biased decisions.......So Javed was the person who did that job for Pak in that test, he would go to umpires and would argue with them about the appeal that got turned down...Javed Obliged and it got to point that umpires even started complaining with Imran, who would intervene ...and would saperate javed from Umpire...but everytime he moved javed away from umpires...he gave Javed a thumps up for what he did too.

 

[ankitj]

**** how unruly was cricket in those days.

 

[Jono]

Tbf those days had blatant cheating from the umps. If that happened nowadays constantly something would give in similar fashion.

 

[Bouncer]

Tbf those days had blatant cheating from the umps. If that happened nowadays constantly something would give in similar fashion.

In that Bangalore game there was unbelievable blatant cheating done by Ramaswami in the final inning even by the bad standards of those times from some of the infamous umpires in Eng, Aus, WI, Pak, SL, NZ

It was over 20 years ago when I had only read about that catch of Gavasker that Manzoor Elahi or Rizwan Uzman ( Sorry I dont remember exactly who it was) took diving across the pitch from Silly point to silly mid on - saw it for the first time tonight and it was every bit as unbelievable of a catch as i had read 20 years ago, but given not out by Ramaswami.

 

[smash84]

Oh my God.....terrible umpiring and horrible pressuring tactics from Pak too

 

[SJS]

In that Bangalore game there was unbelievable blatant cheating done by Ramaswami in the final inning even by the bad standards of those times from some of the infamous umpires in Eng, Aus, WI, Pak, SL, NZ

It was over 20 years ago when I had only read about that catch of Gavasker that Manzoor Elahi or Rizwan Uzman ( Sorry I dont remember exactly who it was) took diving across the pitch from Silly point to silly mid on - saw it for the first time tonight and it was every bit as unbelievable of a catch as i had read 20 years ago, but given not out by Ramaswami.

Thanks for the clip mate. It brought back memories.

The film is grainy so one can't tell about the decision but I am willing to believe that Gavaskar was out. The umpiring in those times was terrible (on both sides mind you) and this was not something one was not accustomed to. It was a shame for sure.

Even in first class games it was impossible to get an lbw against Gavaskar in those days. Similarly, Delhi played their blatant chucker, Suresh Luthra, only in games played at home or at best in the North Zone. When he played in other zones he was completely ineffective since he had to bowl normally. They finally decided he was not worth taking on tour !!

 

[Bouncer]

Thanks for the clip mate. It brought back memories.

The film is grainy so one can't tell about the decision but I am willing to believe that Gavaskar was out. The umpiring in those times was terrible (on both sides mind you) and this was not something one was not accustomed to. It was a shame for sure.

Even in first class games it was impossible to get an lbw against Gavaskar in those days. Similarly, Delhi played their blatant chucker, Suresh Luthra, only in games played at home or at best in the North Zone. When he played in other zones he was completely ineffective since he had to bowl normally. They finally decided he was not worth taking on tour !!

So was it Manzoor ilahi or Rizwan Uzaman who took that diving catch?

 

[SJS]

So was it Manzoor ilahi or Rizwan Uzaman who took that diving catch?

I don't know which is the fielder in this clip. Rizwan was the fielder who eventually caught Gavaskar at slip off Iqbal Qasim for 96 to mark the end of Gavaskar's career.

 

[bagapath]

Though Marshall should have had him for 0, just as he did in the 2nd innings...

i remember watching the highlights on video, brought from england by a wealthy, well traveled businessman friend of my dad's. sunny did look plumb in front in the first innings to marshall before he opened his account. the umpire was kind to him, for sure. i remember gatting writing about this in his autobiography.

 

[SJS]

In those days if you stretched your front foot out and padded up to the ball, the umpires invariably gave you the benefit if the doubt. This made for a very frustrating time particularly for the spinners. I have absolutely no doubt that Bedi, Chandrasekhar and Prasanna, for example would have had far greater career hauls but for this tendency of batsmen.

I remember one series where England were struggling and asked for Colin Cowdrey to be sent in as reinforcement. He came and promptly started to play bulk of the deliveries on a pad stretched far out and kept doing it and no one could do anything amount it.

As far as overall umpiring standards go, while mistakes were made everywhere, the general opinion was that umpires in India, Pakistan and New Zealand were the worst and cheated. Most players that I have met, reluctantly agreed that standards in Australia and England were very high although, as expected, umpires there too did make the odd mistake as well.

The "gore login ki saazish" (white people's conspiracy) canard spread by some leading Indian and Pakistani cricketers to hide the guilt they must have felt at the blatant cheating within their own countries. They did not get the "doubtful benefits" umpires in their own countries gave them so regularly. Repeating this conspiracy theories when back home meant that the public tended to believe them as is till today the case with public ;-)