OK to taunt Murali says MacGill

[Chubby Rain]

The Barmy Army have a ridiculous amount of songs taunting Australian cricketers. They must have a 50 page book about Warney, they have a lot about Punter now these days too. These songs are certainly things which taunt players. Should we disallow these? Should the Barmy Army not be able to sing such 'filth'?

Personally, I think cricketers need to man up. Not all of them actually because a large majority of them take taunts from the crowd as it's meant to be taken, a bit of a joke which symbolises the rivalry and passion that goes on in cricket. But Murali, what a god damn whinger. Why is he so special that the crowd is not allowed to taunt him? They damn well taunt every other cricketer in the world, so why should Murali be excepted?

You have no idea.

 

[Richard]

The Barmy Army have a ridiculous amount of songs taunting Australian cricketers. They must have a 50 page book about Warney, they have a lot about Punter now these days too. These songs are certainly things which taunt players. Should we disallow these? Should the Barmy Army not be able to sing such 'filth'?

CMJ wrote a couple of winters ago that the Barmy Army "too often demean English cricket" and TBH I've thought such a thing more than once myself.

The only specifics I've ever heard has been:
"Throw, throw throw the ball,
Gently down the seam,
Murali, Murali, Murali, Murali,
Chucks it like a dream"
Which, needless to say, I was none too enamoured with. I've never taken a great deal of note of their antics and wouldn't even know that specific one there had it not been quoted in Wisden, but I've got the gist, and it does seem that they, like certain sections of Aussie crowds with Murali, go OTT of times, especially with Aussie players, and this is no more acceptible than any Murali-bashing in Australia.

Now, the thing to remember is that most of the Aussie players tend to react differently, so it doesn't tend to get the same sort of attention.

Too easy is it to say "the Aussie players take it the right way, Murali being soft can't take it".

 

[BoyBrumby]

and if just accepts it mutely(or ignores it) and tries to get on with it, will that make them more or less likely to have another go? first of all these people are certainly not true cricket fans, so as far as such people are concerned, i would think they would just raise the degree of abuse to get some attention(which is why they are doing it in the first place), at what point does it become unacceptable in your opinion?

Coupla points there.

Firstly I wasn't advocating passive resistance or stoic forbearance as the correct course of action in the face of abuse per se, I was pointing out to Richard that it doesn't necessarily require a "macho" response. I personally have no objections to sportsmen giving the crowd a bit of comeback (within reason, obv). To use a very recent example from another sport, Mido the Middlesbrough striker who's an Egyptian Muslim, copped far worse (seriously, Google it) than Murali has ever got from the Newcastle fans & his response on scoring a goal was this:

Not an aggressive gesture, just a "silence, morons". I think any fan of a team a sportsman represents would prefer this to Murali's course of action.

Secondly, I'd say it becomes unacceptable when it becomes racist or extremely personal. Yelling "no-ball" doesn't qualify on either count.

 

[Richard]

The same, incidentally, applies to Gillespie being taunted by the crowd during the 2005 Ashes and so on. Not to racial abuse, threats of physical violence and so on, though.

So long as it's not racial abuse, or personl (eg. "ya mum etc.") i don't see it as that big of a problem. Lets not forget that Murali isn't the only one that's ever been taunted. As Faaip said Gillespie copped it in '05, and iirc a while back Lee was on the receiving end of the same "no ball" chant Murali receives.

This is pretty much as I've just said above, but...

I just don't see why Murali should be expected to react in the same way as Gillespie, Lee and anyone else (whose reaction was roughly nothing). Why is their way right and Murali's wrong?

 

[Richard]

Coupla points there.

Firstly I wasn't advocating passive resistance or stoic forbearance as the correct course of action in the face of abuse per se, I was pointing out to Richard that it doesn't necessarily require a "macho" response. I personally have no objections to sportsmen giving the crowd a bit of comeback (within reason, obv). To use a very recent example from another sport, Mido the Middlesbrough striker who's an Egyptian Muslim, copped far worse (seriously, Google it) than Murali has ever got from the Newcastle fans & his response on scoring a goal was this:

Not an aggressive gesture, just a "silence, morons". I think any fan of a team a sportsman represents would prefer this to Murali's course of action.

Secondly, I'd say it becomes unacceptable when it becomes racist or extremely personal. Yelling "no-ball" doesn't qualify on either count.

Haven't we seen people get done by the police for making even such wholly understandible gestures, it being seen as inciteful?

 

[vic_orthdox]

Its a misleading title - he's not said its 'OK' to taunt Murali; far from it.

Exactly. The thread title makes it sound as though MacGill's inciting the crowds to give it to Murali.

 

[Richard]

Have you ever written a headline in Berita? UIMM you're just a Mod rather than a writer-***-Mod.

It's often difficult to get your point accross with the character-limit and sometimes a slight deviation from exactly what you'd like to say (witness my "Murali sues Bedi" one - I'd much prefer to have said "Murali to sue Bedi" but it wouldn't fit) is unavoidable.

 

[analyst]

Good to see the art of baiting the opponent is not totally dead in Australia.

 

[sideshowtim]

You have no idea.

...That's not a very good argument.

 

[Richard]

Indeed. If one is to say someone has no idea, they need explain why, otherwise it has no credibility.

 

[sideshowtim]

Um...no. Are people saying you're not allowed to voice an "honest, harmless opinion"? No. But we are allowed to condemn someone for their "honest, harmless opinion", which is what has been going on in this thread.

Regarding your other points, you're making the false assumption that people are against abuse/taunts against Murali only. Most people speaking out against what Murali has to endure are against abuse/taunts no matter who has to suffer them.
I think it's incorrect to paint Murali as a whinger as well, although I'm not surprised to see such sentiment coming from yourself. He has had to endure a lot of abuse/taunts throughout his career, and has probably had to deal with more of it than any other cricketer around. Considering the abuse he has been subjected to, I think he's dealt with it quite well and it is rare for him to speak out against it. The abuse that is directed at Murali also has a much nastier tone than that which is directed at most other cricketers. Considering all this, I don't consider Murali a "whinger" at all.

That's, with all due respect, just not true.

How about the South African crowds taunting Adam Gilchrist about his wife etc.? I'd say Warne has probably endured the worst of it being such an enigmatic and huge personality. He cops it from every crowd in the world.

The best way to respond, is not to whinge about it, for that only incites crowds more, but to let your performance on the pitch do the talking. Murali hasn't done this in Australia as statistics show. Gilchrist shut up the crowd in South Africa with one of the finest double tons ever and Warne shut up the crowd...well, everywhere...with his brilliant bowling.

 

[sideshowtim]

Indeed. If one is to say someone has no idea, they need explain why, otherwise it has no credibility.

Well I'd be interested to see why he thought I have no idea. Obviously he disagrees with my opinion, but it'd be nice for him to expand on that.

 

[sideshowtim]

Too easy is it to say "the Aussie players take it the right way, Murali being soft can't take it".

Not just Aussie players, I was merely using them as an example. Pretty much every other cricketer in the world is the subject of abuse from the crowd and handles it well. They cop it on the chin and realise it's part and parcel with being a million dollar+ a season cricketer...Murali should be no different. Block it out, and let your performance on the pitch do the talking.

 

[Richard]

How about the South African crowds taunting Adam Gilchrist about his wife etc.?

Was this constant taunting, the like of which Dasa pointed-out Murali has suffered virtually non-stop throughout his career?

I'm actually not even sure to what you refer either TBH. Not saying it didn't happen, just that I've not heard of it.

I'd say Warne has probably endured the worst of it being such an enigmatic and huge personality. He cops it from every crowd in the world.

This the same Warne who gained as his final cry from the crowds over here "We wish you were English"?

Mostly with Warne, in my experience, there's a friendly, even loving, undertone to some of the "abuse". Absolutely no way is there ever any such thing with Murali - it's pure vitriol, nothing less.

 

[silentstriker]

That's, with all due respect, just not true.

How about the South African crowds taunting Adam Gilchrist about his wife etc.? I'd say Warne has probably endured the worst of it being such an enigmatic and huge personality. He cops it from every crowd in the world.

The best way to respond, is not to whinge about it, for that only incites crowds more, but to let your performance on the pitch do the talking. Murali hasn't done this in Australia as statistics show. Gilchrist shut up the crowd in South Africa with one of the finest double tons ever and Warne shut up the crowd...well, everywhere...with his brilliant bowling.

There is a difference between good natured needling and the quite mean-spirited racist abuse that is oftentimes directed towards certain players.

 

[Richard]

Not just Aussie players, I was merely using them as an example. Pretty much every other cricketer in the world is the subject of abuse from the crowd and handles it well. They cop it on the chin and realise it's part and parcel with being a million dollar+ a season cricketer...Murali should be no different. Block it out, and let your performance on the pitch do the talking.

I honestly don't think they do. Many cricketers are barely noticed by the crowd.

You think there are many people over here who know remember, shall we say, Salim Elahi or Eric Upashantha? I don't.

It's only the really big types who ever get anything - admiration or abuse. And different people deal with it in different ways.

 

[sideshowtim]

There is a difference between good natured needling and the quite mean-spirited racist abuse that is oftentimes directed towards certain players.

Fair enough, and I certainly believe racial abuse goes too far, and anyone racially abusing Murali should get the boot. But yelling 'no-ball'? Calling him a 'chucker'? Please, it's mindless taunting. Who cares what some bogan in the crowd thinks? Let it be, being taunted by the audience is part of being a big-name cricketer. Let's not wrap them in cotton wool.

 

[sideshowtim]

I honestly don't think they do. Many cricketers are barely noticed by the crowd.

You think there are many people over here who know remember, shall we say, Salim Elahi or Eric Upashantha? I don't.

It's only the really big types who ever get anything - admiration or abuse. And different people deal with it in different ways.

Yes, you're right, it is mostly the big name players, but most international cricketers these days will be subject to abuse regardless of who they are or where they come from. If a no-name Kiwi is fielding on the boundary in Australia they'll be bombarded with "sheep shagger" jokes etc....

 

[Dasa]

There is a difference between good natured needling and the quite mean-spirited racist abuse that is oftentimes directed towards certain players.

Exactly. The abuse I've seen directed at Murali is nothing short of disgraceful and as far as I'm concerned, there's no justification for it nor is there justification for saying he should just deal with it.

 

[sideshowtim]

Was this constant taunting, the like of which Dasa pointed-out Murali has suffered virtually non-stop throughout his career?

I'm actually not even sure to what you refer either TBH. Not saying it didn't happen, just that I've not heard of it.

This the same Warne who gained as his final cry from the crowds over here "We wish you were English"?

Mostly with Warne, in my experience, there's a friendly, even loving, undertone to some of the "abuse". Absolutely no way is there ever any such thing with Murali - it's pure vitriol, nothing less.

There were rumours (massively unsubstantiated) at the time that Adam Gilchrist's child was actually Michael Slater's who was rumoured to have slept with Gilchrist's wife (once again, unsubstantiated). They were taunting him about this all game, singing songs about it all game. Gilly responds by smacking a double ton, said he'd never bee angrier, but what a way to respond.

And please don't tell me Warne wouldn't have had some less than pleasant abuse, because that just isn't the case. Even Aussies gave it to him mate. Ever wondered why he loved staying in the slips so much? And no not just because he's a lazy sob...