I'm not "taking out" anything, I'm splitting the career into two parts - one on turning pitches, one on not.
Most spinners don't get picked too often on non-turning pitches, so don't take the volume of punishment Giles did. Batsmen tend to play regardless; spinners don't, most selectors have the sense only to pick spinners when they've got a chance of bowling well.
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Erm, no, because in case you missed it Giles spins the ball. Also, turning pitches aren't judged on how one spinner turns it, it's judged on how all spinners turn it. It's very simple to work-out what's a turning pitch and what isn't, it has nothing to do with either Giles or Panesar.
Rubbish. Panesar is slightly better than Giles, nothing more.Panesar is 20 times the bowler Giles ever was, every excuse you make for Giles just de-values your argument further,.
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey Tucker
Originally Posted by Babar Hayat
The old Giles had a good game cus the pitch was turning arguement i see. Any match he had a poor match the pitch wasn't turning. Something you might have missed was the countless poor games Giles had on turning pitches as well. But regardless to be good enough to play Test Cricket as a spinner you have be able to bowl on both turning pitches and less responsive pitches.
The other thing is good Test spin bowlers don't take wickets cus the ball is spinning square, its cus they have subtle varation, which Giles never had. He just one way his whole career and on pitches that had a little bit extra support he had a bit of success (not a great deal though) or against crap batsmen like in domestic cricket. His crap bowler not because of the pitches he played on, because he didn't have the abilty to alter his game when conditions were tough. Panesar might have not acheived much more but atleast he shows the ability to alter his game in tough conditions.
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Richard you should take up debating and just go on the side that has no chance of winning all the time.
You witness a small minority of matches though. How do you determine if the pitch turns or not if you don't see the game?
Furthermore, what if bowlers just bowl poorly on a pitch - getting their releases wrong and not turning the ball, despite the fact that it's actually a raging turner?
Giles did have many good games when the pitches were turning, and many poor ones when it wasn't (when most fingerspinners wouldn't be picked).
No, there weren't many - 2 or 3 at best.Something you might have missed was the countless poor games Giles had on turning pitches as well.
Not fingerspinners. No fingerspinner has ever been much good on unresponsive surfaces.But regardless to be good enough to play Test Cricket as a spinner you have be able to bowl on both turning pitches and less responsive pitches.
No spinner takes wickets very often without turning the ball. Occasionally batsmen miss loads of straight balls like West Indies did at Lord's earlier this season, but that's very rare.The other thing is good Test spin bowlers don't take wickets cus the ball is spinning square, its cus they have subtle varation, which Giles never had. He just one way his whole career and on pitches that had a little bit extra support he had a bit of success (not a great deal though) or against crap batsmen like in domestic cricket. His crap bowler not because of the pitches he played on, because he didn't have the abilty to alter his game when conditions were tough. Panesar might have not acheived much more but atleast he shows the ability to alter his game in tough conditions.
Mostly, if someone bowling at 50mph doesn't turn the ball, he hasn't got a hope in hell of taking wickets.
Ok, which pitches are these, when were these situations that Giles's shouldn't have played, how has Monty Panesar managed to get all the square turners so far and Giles hasn't.
I have no idea how you deem yourself to be able to judge what it as turning wicket and what is not being an arm chair fan.
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