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Shane Warne's replacement

Julian87

State Captain
There are a few guys trying to prove themselves and get into the Australian test team now that Warne and McGrath have retired. The fast bowling shouldn't be too much of a worry with Lee, Clark, Hilfenhaus, Gillespie, Tait and Johnson all ready (imo) and fighting for spots.

But the spin option is wide open because Stuart Macgill is getting on in age and hasn't been at his dominant best of late, not to mention the selectors apparent dislike of him. So who should replace Warne? I think it is definitely Stuey as the number one choice, because Cullen and Bailey both have pretty ordinary first class records. Cullen appears to be a good ODD/I bowler but has not enough variety or penetration to succeed in test matches imo. I am biased but I don't think a stock standard off spinner has a place in test cricket today. The likes of Saqlain, Murali and Vettori have taken it to a new level.

I will be very dissapointed if Macgill isn't picked. And if he's not, I will be even more dissed if they pick the off spin of Cullen. Of the young bowlers I would choose Bailey because he has the potential and being a leg spinner, he is naturally more attacking.

There is then also the fact that both Symonds and Clarke can bowl part time finger spin. But this is almost a myth imo, they may come in handy on a fifth day SCG turner or a crumbler on the sub continent, but anywhere else, they are pretty much useless in the longer version of the game. Imo, so are Symonds' medium pacers. He needs to step up with the bat because he is miles away from all rounder status in test cricket. It's like saying Mark Waugh's bowling was worthy of all rounder status imo. I am also hoping Cameron White comes into contention soon as a lower middle order batsman because I think him as a second bowling option would be great assistance, especially once Macgill has retired or if he isn't selected. I haven't mentioned Watson because I think he should be the opener that replaces Langer.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Forget Cameron White as a bowler. Please. I said it before the VB series, during the VB series and after the VB series - he's a batsman. He can bowl a little bit occassionally, but it's really nothing of the substance that would aid him into a test side. I've seen Punter bowl leg spinners that are better than White's - seriously. I have high hopes for the guy as a batsman, especially in one day cricket, but the bowling is a no-go area.

As for the rest of your post, I'd be highly surprised if MacGill is not picked initially. I wouldn't be completely shocked if he was dire and got replaced fairly quickly, but I'm very confident he will be given the first crack. He didn't have a good year for NSW, but he's always bowled much better for Australia than he has for NSW anyway, and the selectors will be looking to reward him for so many years of biding his time and performing behind Warne, rightly or wrongly.

One guy you didn't mention at all was Hogg. I really hope he isn't considered as a test option as he is a dire first class bowler and always will be IMO - but from what I've read, the brains trust of Ponting + the selectors are treating him as a serious test option.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
I say play five seamers :D

Anyway for some reason i think Hogg will trouble the Lankans more then MacGill. We have never played Hogg well and never read his wrong on.
 

Julian87

State Captain
I didn't mention Hogg because he doesn't rate a mention really. Anyone that is ousted by Casson doesn't deserve a mention at all. I admit White's bowling is rubbish in one dayers, but i think he would be more useful with the ball in test matches than Symonds.
 

pasag

RTDAS
MacGill said a while back he thinks he has a few years left, so it's not really a huge problem at the moment as long as he does the job and it gives us a clear outline as well to plan for the future with the youngsters as opposed to rushing anyone in as Vic said. So it's not something I'm particularly worried about, for now.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
People are making this a bigger deal than it really is IMO. MacGill had a poor season, it happens to everybody. He's still a fairly classy bowler who should do well in the Test arena and provide a decent spin option for the next few years, allowing the younger bowlers a chance to develop. If none of them get up to the required level, then four seamers will probably be chosen except on a turning wicket.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Spinners have such a long career, and because the physical demands aren't necessarily as great as other pursuits, there's too much judgement of spinners at far too young an age.
 

howardj

International Coach
MacGill will play for the next few years and be a very important member of the Test team. As someone said about Cullen and Bailey's readiness for Test cricket at the moment - Warnie wasn't ready at 21, so don't expect these guys to be. Anyway, if a spinner in Australia can average 30 and strike at 60, Australia should be very happy. Everyone needs to lower their expectations of Australian spin bowlers a little. We've been spoilt by the great man since 1993.
 

Jungle Jumbo

International Vice-Captain
There's nothing wrong with MacGill - he would have been one of the best bowlers in the world IMO if Warne hadn't have been around. MacGill's Test record is, IIRC, better than most other spinners in world cricket at any time, even if he did rely a bit on his yearly turn-out at Sydney.

It seems to me like Australia are putting too much faith in Warne's 'replacement'. No-one will replace him, not out of this current generation at least. Even if they find a spinner half as good as Warne, it will be regarding as a success. Just look how England had to make do with Giles for years, while rising to being the second best team in the world.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
MacGill will play for the next few years and be a very important member of the Test team. As someone said about Cullen and Bailey's readiness for Test cricket at the moment - Warnie wasn't ready at 21, so don't expect these guys to be. Anyway, if a spinner in Australia can average 30 and strike at 60, Australia should be very happy. Everyone needs to lower their expectations of Australian spin bowlers a little. We've been spoilt by the great man since 1993.
Well said that man.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Even if we look at before Warne, Australia did not have a great spinner for quite a while. Tim May and all those guys in the 80s weren't all that flash. The 80s team wasn't that good for a while but still... There were Lilllees and Borders where bowling and batting are concerned in the 70s but no great spinner for quite a while I would imagine. There was Yardley who is the last good one before Warne I can think of.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Even if we look at before Warne, Australia did not have a great spinner for quite a while. Tim May and all those guys in the 80s weren't all that flash. The 80s team wasn't that good for a while but still... There were Lilllees and Borders where bowling and batting are concerned in the 70s but no great spinner for quite a while I would imagine. There was Yardley who is the last good one before Warne I can think of.
Yep, tbh Australia hadn't had a great spinner since Benaud was at his peak. Mallet and Yardley (and even he had only one stellar season in 81/82), among one or two others, were very good and played their role superbly, but it's not as though every generation of Australian cricket has had its own freakish matchwinning spinner.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Even if we look at before Warne, Australia did not have a great spinner for quite a while. Tim May and all those guys in the 80s weren't all that flash. The 80s team wasn't that good for a while but still... There were Lilllees and Borders where bowling and batting are concerned in the 70s but no great spinner for quite a while I would imagine. There was Yardley who is the last good one before Warne I can think of.
Even Yardley was only good for a season. There was Jim Higgs, too, who was in a similar boat. But the only truly good spinner Australia had between Benaud and Warne was Ashley Mallett.

However, as Robert (Prince EWS) has pointed-out ad infinitum, such a thing doesn't neccessarily mean there won't be anyone good for another 40 years. There might be someone good in 2 seasons' time, there might be no-one good ever again. We just have to wait and see, really. All we know currently is that there's no-one right now. And of those currently playing, I'd happily say I don't believe any bar Cullen Bailey have any real chance of sustained Test success.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
There's nothing wrong with MacGill - he would have been one of the best bowlers in the world IMO if Warne hadn't have been around.
And IMO he wouldn't, he'd have been found-out as distinctly average. Maybe now he might be.
MacGill's Test record is, IIRC, better than most other spinners in world cricket at any time, even if he did rely a bit on his yearly turn-out at Sydney.
He relied on one game there, more like, in 1998\99. Aside from that, his record at The SCG is distinctly average.
 

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