View Poll Results: Ambrose vs. Lillee in Tests

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  • Curtley Ambrose

    22 56.41%
  • Dennis Lillee

    15 38.46%
  • I can't decide. Bugger it!

    6 15.38%
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Thread: Ambrose vs. Lillee in Tests. Who was better?

  1. #16
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Can't believe anyone can seriously even speak of the two in the same breath, TBH.

    Ambrose did everything a seam-bowler could want to do. Lillee, whether he'd have been able to or not, didn't.

    Ambrose's career trumps Lillee's easily.
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  2. #17
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac View Post
    Both great bowlers, I watched them both live and on the tele, I think Ambrose had the better yorker and Lillee the better away swinger, still I would be happy to take both. But as Lillee was my boyhood hero I will take FOT
    The better away-swinger (possibly only with a ball and skies in the right condition) maybe, but in almost every other respect Ambrose has more over Lillee, not just in Yorkers. His off-cutters and leg-cutters, especially. Ambrose could bowl leg-cutters like virtually no other, and if you can do that, and use the seam, you can't go far wrong.

    Ambrose also used metronomic where Lillee used variation, and while both pay-off about equally, one has more potential to go wrong.

  3. #18
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    The better away-swinger (possibly only with a ball and skies in the right condition) maybe, but in almost every other respect Ambrose has more over Lillee, not just in Yorkers. His off-cutters and leg-cutters, especially. Ambrose could bowl leg-cutters like virtually no other, and if you can do that, and use the seam, you can't go far wrong.

    Ambrose also used metronomic where Lillee used variation, and while both pay-off about equally, one has more potential to go wrong.
    I watched them both and bar a yorker Lillee had everything a fast bowler could have, Lillee also could bowl the leg cutter and better than Ambrose in my opinion. I am surprised you rate Lillee so lowly when everyone who actually watched him or played with or against him had no doubt he was clearly the best
    You know it makes sense.

  4. #19
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Can't believe anyone can seriously even speak of the two in the same breath, TBH.

    Ambrose did everything a seam-bowler could want to do. Lillee, whether he'd have been able to or not, didn't.

    Ambrose's career trumps Lillee's easily.
    Not the subcontinent crap again


  5. #20
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac View Post
    I watched them both and bar a yorker Lillee had everything a fast bowler could have, Lillee also could bowl the leg cutter and better than Ambrose in my opinion. I am surprised you rate Lillee so lowly when everyone who actually watched him or played with or against him had no doubt he was clearly the best
    Plenty of people did have doubts, though, and they were mostly those who looked beyond the image and at the actual output. There were people who could bowl slightly better than Lillee, in several ways, just not people who could convey the image so well in combination with excellent bowling.

  6. #21
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac View Post
    Not the subcontinent crap again
    It's not crap, it's simple fact. Lillee does not have performance in the subcontinent to his name. Other bowlers do. This does not mean Lillee was incapable of performing in the subcontinent, but the fact remains nonetheless that he didn't.

    And no, the subcontinent (or West Indies) cannot be equated to Australia in any way shape or form, regardless of that fact that some similarities exist.

  7. #22
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Plenty of people did have doubts, though, and they were mostly those who looked beyond the image and at the actual output. There were people who could bowl slightly better than Lillee, in several ways, just not people who could convey the image so well in combination with excellent bowling.
    Give me one name of a contemporary who did not rate Lillee the best or near enough to it?

    So 355 wickets was all for show, and no Bangas or Zims to help the ave

  8. #23
    International Regular DCC_legend's Avatar
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    Curtley Ambrose for mine.
    Where's my money?

  9. #24
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    It's not crap, it's simple fact. Lillee does not have performance in the subcontinent to his name. Other bowlers do. This does not mean Lillee was incapable of performing in the subcontinent, but the fact remains nonetheless that he didn't.

    And no, the subcontinent (or West Indies) cannot be equated to Australia in any way shape or form, regardless of that fact that some similarities exist.
    He went to Pakistan for one 3 Test series so on that basis he could not bowl

    One Test in SL at the end of his career and a serious back injury in the Windies.

    I am not having this conversation again, because you never give any ground (although tbf neither do I)

  10. #25
    International Coach adharcric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac View Post
    He went to Pakistan for one 3 Test series so on that basis he could not bowl

    One Test in SL at the end of his career and a serious back injury in the Windies.

    I am not having this conversation again, because you never give any ground (although tbf neither do I)
    Bottom line: Lillee is unproven in the subcontinent. That should be held against him in comparisons to bowlers who have done everything he has and are proven in the subcontinent.

  11. #26
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adharcric View Post
    Bottom line: Lillee is unproven in the subcontinent. That should be held against him in comparisons to bowlers who have done everything he has and are proven in the subcontinent.
    I just don't agree, on that logic Ponting is behind every batsman that performed better in the Subcontinent and did well in Aust. VVS Laxman for example. Murali must also been well behind Shane Warne because he was no good in Aust and about the same in India

  12. #27
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac View Post
    I just don't agree, on that logic Ponting is behind every batsman that performed better in the Subcontinent and did well in Aust.
    No, but he is behind every batsman with a similar record who DID perform everywhere he did AND India.
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  13. #28
    International Coach adharcric's Avatar
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    EDIT: SS pretty much nailed it.

  14. #29
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    Lillee performed in far more difficult circumstances.
    Overcame back injury, played in WSC cricket, greater opposition (WIndies) and heralded an era in Aus Cricket.
    Amby had it comparatively easier, coming after a bunch of fasties paved the way for him (Roberts, Holding, Croft, Garner...)

    Even after retirement, Lillee stayed involved with his art.
    And Amby...well, he joined the reggae group Dread and the Baldhead with Richie Rich

  15. #30
    International Coach adharcric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engle
    greater opposition (WIndies)
    Can't see how anything else in your post is a genuine argument.

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