The "What If " Game

[aussie tragic]

Rules are simple, just state an ideal time that a Player should have retired to be considered a much greater player statistically then present (must have been at the end of a series though, no Hussain like theatrics allowed).

I'll start with an easy one with Geoff Boycott:

1978 (after NZ series): 74T, 5675 runs @ 51.12, 16C, 32F

This would have made him the last Englishman to retire with a test average > 50

 

[wpdavid]

Rules are simple, just state an ideal time that a Player should have retired to be considered a much greater player statistically then present (must have been at the end of a series though).

I'll start with an easy one with Geoff Boycott:

1978 (after NZ series): 74T, 5675 runs @ 51.12, 16C, 32F

This would have made hime the last Englishman to retire with a test average > 50

otoh, his reputation is arguably stronger for facing up to Roberts, Holding, Garner & Croft/Marshall in 1980 & 1981, since there are plenty who will argue (wrongly) that his mid1970's sabbatical was to avoid Aus & WI.

Botham, of course, would have astonishingly good stats if he'd retired at 31.8.82.

Or Strauss could have retired at 31.1.05

etc.

 

[BoyBrumby]

In an alternate universe Waqar Younis tragically suffered a fatal diarrhoea blow-back on June 13th 1994 after celebrating victory in the 1st test v NZ in 1993/4 rather too heartily, leaving him with 154 wickets @ 18.35.

Seriously tho, if he'd have retired around then I reckon he'd be thought of as the best ever.

 

[aussie tragic]

Another one:

Kim Hughes (1984): 61 T, 4119 runs @ 41.19, 9C, 22F (his last 9 tests were against WI at their peak which resulted in his average dropping to a very English like 37.41)

 

[Jono]

What if Lara retired after this match with a test average of 47.69.

Would he still have gone down as an all-time great? Or just a terrific batsman who could have been more? He wouldn't have had a lot of his triumphs post-2000, obviously his 400, and wouldn't have been the highest test run scorer ever.

 

[Jono]

In an alternate universe Waqar Younis tragically suffered a fatal diarrhoea blow-back on June 13th 1994 after celebrating victory in the 1st test v NZ in 1993/4 rather too heartily, leaving him with 154 wickets @ 18.35.

Seriously tho, if he'd have retired around then I reckon he'd be thought of as the best ever.

Yeah and a serious reason for that would also have been his ridiculously awesome strike rate as well.

 

[Richard]

OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH! I'm tempted to say "great thread", but as I could do this for virtually everyone who's ever played the game I'm worried now, about where my time the next few weeks will go.

I'll do a few now though...

 

[aussie tragic]

In an alternate universe Waqar Younis tragically suffered a fatal diarrhoea blow-back on June 13th 1994 after celebrating victory in the 1st test v NZ in 1993/4 rather too heartily, leaving him with 154 wickets @ 18.35.

Seriously tho, if he'd have retired around then I reckon he'd be thought of as the best ever.

In the same alternate Universe, Ian Botham finally made the wise decision to become an Aussie and left the England team in 1980, only to become lost in the outback on a charity walk...... becomes known as the greatest Allrounder ever with:

25 Tests, 1336 runs @ 40.48, 139 wkts @ 18.52

 

[Richard]

Imagine if ITB had ricked his back badly on 2\12\1981 and never played again... and never been given the captaincy.

Waqar Younis could have done to have had some career-ending injury on 2\12\1994, then he might just be regarded as the best seamer in history.

We all know Jeff Thomson's not the smartest chap in history, but had he not hidden his broken foot 3 years before his real arrival, and not been silly enough to come out of retirement in 1985 his overall career record would be much more accurate in indicating his impact.

Two of West Indies' finest of the 1950s and 60s started rather superbly and tapered-off in exact half-and-half... Wesley Winfield Hall and Lancelot Gibbs.

Mikey Holding's much smarter than Thommo, but he should never have gone back on his retirement plans after the '86 Blackwash, and nor should Lloyd have picked him in Australia in '75\76.

Had Alvin Kallicharran not been denied the chance to join Packer by a radio contract in SA, he might just be remembered as what he was - WI's 2nd-best after IVAR of that era.

More to come, without doubt...

 

[Richard]

(must have been at the end of a series though, no Hussain like theatrics allowed)

Just noticed this... why not? What's the end of a series that the end of a match isn't? You've never seen things change in the course of a series, have you?

 

[Richard]

In honour of my avatar at the time of this post... if Stephen Harmison had been picked for the first time for the West Indies tour of 2004 (and let's face it - he should NEVER have been anywhere near before then, even if he'd been doing some work at the Academy or summat) and had done something to something after the end of the New Zealand series 3 months later...

 

[aussie tragic]

Just noticed this... why not? What's the end of a series that the end of a match isn't? You've never seen things change in the course of a series, have you?

ummmm... how about Botham as Captain for 2 tests in 1981 vs Botham as non-Captain and winning the Ashes.......besides, it makes it a little more real and would stop you just picking a players test where he had his best average.....then again an alternate universe where Botham becomes an Aussie is allowed

 

[Richard]

ummmm... how about Botham as Captain in 1981 vs Botham as non-Captain and winning the Ashes.......besides, it makes it a little more real and would stop you just picking a players test where he had his best average.....then again an alternate universe where Botham becomes an Aussie is allowed

For me, really, there's nothing wrong with picking a player's best games if they're consecutive. Obviously it's no use picking someone's best games out cherry-style, but there's nothing wrong (as I showed earlier) in knocking off a bit at the end and a bit at the beginning, really.

IMO, at least.

 

[aussie tragic]

For me, really, there's nothing wrong with picking a player's best games if they're consecutive. Obviously it's no use picking someone's best games out cherry-style, but there's nothing wrong (as I showed earlier) in knocking off a bit at the end and a bit at the beginning, really.

IMO, at least.

I agree with the knocking off at the beginning and end; Thommo was a great example (what an idiot playing his first test with a secret broken foot), but dropping tests like the Botham example you gave is not really fair

btw, I'm sure Steve Waugh would be a fantastic record if he debuted a few years later....

 

[Richard]

A few West Indian seamers of the early 1970s get a bit of a raw deal if you look at their overall-career-record-only:
Vanburn Holder would look a bit better but for Packer... and if West Indies played more at the pace-friendly Sabina Park and Kensington Oval and less at the slow Bourda and Queen's Park Oval. (That last part wasn't too serious, BTW)

Keith Boyce was perhaps a bit unfortunate not to play a bit earlier, as he didn't age well.

Bernard Julien too had a reasonable start.

It's a shame West Indies played so few Tests at that time.

 

[Richard]

btw, I'm sure Steve Waugh would be a fantastic record if he debuted a few years later....

How on EARTH could I have forgotten...

Stephen Waugh really did debut rather too early, if we're honest, and went on a bit longer than, in hindsight, perhaps he might... but he still had one hell of a career.

 

[Richard]

One of Waugh's contemporaries whose situation is not totally unlike the complete inverse... we all know that picking someone for Test cricket at the age of 16 isn't often gonna be too successful, and if India had waited a few months with Sachin Tendulkar, and if he'd suffered some sort of career-ending injury after the home West Indies series of 2002\03, while at the time it'd have been recognised as utterly terrible, in hindsight maybe (and I say maybe because it is very much so) it'd have done him and everyone associated a real favour...

 

[aussie tragic]

ooh.... Sir Viv Richards at his ultimate gum chewing, fear staggering best:

April 1981 after the Wi vs Eng series: 44 Tests, 3969 runs @ 62.01, 13C, 16F......2nd highest average behind Bradman I believe

 

[aussie tragic]

Maybe Mike Hussey should retire now : 1597 runs @ 79.85

 

[Richard]

TBH, have thought "it's gotta start going down now" with Hussey all the time... and I'm still thinking it.

If and when it does, that, of course, is when he should retire.