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Thread: The "What If " Game

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    International Debutant aussie tragic's Avatar
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    The "What If " Game

    Rules are simple, just state an ideal time that a Player should have retired to be considered a much greater player statistically then present (must have been at the end of a series though, no Hussain like theatrics allowed).

    I'll start with an easy one with Geoff Boycott:

    1978 (after NZ series): 74T, 5675 runs @ 51.12, 16C, 32F

    This would have made him the last Englishman to retire with a test average > 50
    Last edited by aussie tragic; 20-06-2007 at 01:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie tragic View Post
    Rules are simple, just state an ideal time that a Player should have retired to be considered a much greater player statistically then present (must have been at the end of a series though).

    I'll start with an easy one with Geoff Boycott:

    1978 (after NZ series): 74T, 5675 runs @ 51.12, 16C, 32F

    This would have made hime the last Englishman to retire with a test average > 50
    otoh, his reputation is arguably stronger for facing up to Roberts, Holding, Garner & Croft/Marshall in 1980 & 1981, since there are plenty who will argue (wrongly) that his mid1970's sabbatical was to avoid Aus & WI.

    Botham, of course, would have astonishingly good stats if he'd retired at 31.8.82.

    Or Strauss could have retired at 31.1.05

    etc.

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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    In an alternate universe Waqar Younis tragically suffered a fatal diarrhoea blow-back on June 13th 1994 after celebrating victory in the 1st test v NZ in 1993/4 rather too heartily, leaving him with 154 wickets @ 18.35.

    Seriously tho, if he'd have retired around then I reckon he'd be thought of as the best ever.
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    International Debutant aussie tragic's Avatar
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    Another one:

    Kim Hughes (1984): 61 T, 4119 runs @ 41.19, 9C, 22F (his last 9 tests were against WI at their peak which resulted in his average dropping to a very English like 37.41)
    Last edited by aussie tragic; 20-06-2007 at 01:39 PM.


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    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    What if Lara retired after this match with a test average of 47.69.

    Would he still have gone down as an all-time great? Or just a terrific batsman who could have been more? He wouldn't have had a lot of his triumphs post-2000, obviously his 400, and wouldn't have been the highest test run scorer ever.
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    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    In an alternate universe Waqar Younis tragically suffered a fatal diarrhoea blow-back on June 13th 1994 after celebrating victory in the 1st test v NZ in 1993/4 rather too heartily, leaving him with 154 wickets @ 18.35.

    Seriously tho, if he'd have retired around then I reckon he'd be thought of as the best ever.
    Yeah and a serious reason for that would also have been his ridiculously awesome strike rate as well.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH! I'm tempted to say "great thread", but as I could do this for virtually everyone who's ever played the game I'm worried now, about where my time the next few weeks will go.

    I'll do a few now though...
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    International Debutant aussie tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    In an alternate universe Waqar Younis tragically suffered a fatal diarrhoea blow-back on June 13th 1994 after celebrating victory in the 1st test v NZ in 1993/4 rather too heartily, leaving him with 154 wickets @ 18.35.

    Seriously tho, if he'd have retired around then I reckon he'd be thought of as the best ever.
    In the same alternate Universe, Ian Botham finally made the wise decision to become an Aussie and left the England team in 1980, only to become lost in the outback on a charity walk...... becomes known as the greatest Allrounder ever with:

    25 Tests, 1336 runs @ 40.48, 139 wkts @ 18.52

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie tragic View Post
    (must have been at the end of a series though, no Hussain like theatrics allowed)
    Just noticed this... why not? What's the end of a series that the end of a match isn't? You've never seen things change in the course of a series, have you?

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    International Debutant aussie tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Just noticed this... why not? What's the end of a series that the end of a match isn't? You've never seen things change in the course of a series, have you?
    ummmm... how about Botham as Captain for 2 tests in 1981 vs Botham as non-Captain and winning the Ashes.......besides, it makes it a little more real and would stop you just picking a players test where he had his best average.....then again an alternate universe where Botham becomes an Aussie is allowed
    Last edited by aussie tragic; 20-06-2007 at 02:09 PM.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie tragic View Post
    ummmm... how about Botham as Captain in 1981 vs Botham as non-Captain and winning the Ashes.......besides, it makes it a little more real and would stop you just picking a players test where he had his best average.....then again an alternate universe where Botham becomes an Aussie is allowed
    For me, really, there's nothing wrong with picking a player's best games if they're consecutive. Obviously it's no use picking someone's best games out cherry-style, but there's nothing wrong (as I showed earlier) in knocking off a bit at the end and a bit at the beginning, really.

    IMO, at least.

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    International Debutant aussie tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    For me, really, there's nothing wrong with picking a player's best games if they're consecutive. Obviously it's no use picking someone's best games out cherry-style, but there's nothing wrong (as I showed earlier) in knocking off a bit at the end and a bit at the beginning, really.

    IMO, at least.
    I agree with the knocking off at the beginning and end; Thommo was a great example (what an idiot playing his first test with a secret broken foot), but dropping tests like the Botham example you gave is not really fair

    btw, I'm sure Steve Waugh would be a fantastic record if he debuted a few years later....

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    A few West Indian seamers of the early 1970s get a bit of a raw deal if you look at their overall-career-record-only:
    Vanburn Holder would look a bit better but for Packer... and if West Indies played more at the pace-friendly Sabina Park and Kensington Oval and less at the slow Bourda and Queen's Park Oval. (That last part wasn't too serious, BTW)

    Keith Boyce was perhaps a bit unfortunate not to play a bit earlier, as he didn't age well.

    Bernard Julien too had a reasonable start.

    It's a shame West Indies played so few Tests at that time.

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