Yuvraj Singh and Mohammad Kaif

[Anil]

Right, so you're saying that the Kaif innings was better than the Yuvraj innings and so Kaif had more credit in the bank for you at the start of the Mohali game. Fine. No, I'm not deliberately trying to miss the point, and I hope I've got it this time.

So, let's say Laxman had scored in that Nagpur game, and you wanted to play five bowlers - would it still have been unfair to leave Kaif out? Because I don't think it would. No Yuvraj; Dravid, Tendulkar and Laxman are all undroppable.

first of all, no one is or should be "undroppable", in the 90s the only person who had come close to deserving that kind of status in the indian team was tendulkar, in the 2000s, it has been dravid, no one else in this team is close to it....in any case, yuvraj was not in the team to begin with so need not have been dropped while kaif was in and should not have been, that's the crux of the issue...

 

[Richard]

And why is Yuvraj undroppable ?

He's not, that's the point I've just had made to me.

 

[Richard]

first of all, no one is or should be "undroppable", in the 90s the only person who had come close to deserving that kind of status in the indian team was tendulkar, in the 2000s, it has been dravid, no one else in this team is close to it....in any case, yuvraj was not in the team to begin with so need not have been dropped while kaif was in and should not have been, that's the crux of the issue...

For me, someone's undroppable if their recent performances have been good enough.

As regards Yuvraj not being in the team, I've always viewed it as someone is "in the team" if they miss a game through injury. If they miss one through injury then regain fitness in time for the next and are not picked, for me, that's being dropped.

Look at it like this: I know this isn't directly comparable to the Yuvraj-Kaif situation at that particular time but it demonstrates the hypothesis:
Player A scores 132, 152 and 122 in his last 3 innings. He then misses a game through injury and Player B scores 83 in that game. All 4 innings are good knocks and influence the outcome of the game in some way.
Does Player A not deserve to come back into the side? Of course he does. Player B has done well sitting in, but can't userp Player A just because he got injured.

 

[Richard]

tbh i've always quite like kaif but never sure why....similarly i've never much cared for yuvraj, both are better than mahendra dhoni mind you.

Indeed, I always had a similar feeling for Hemang Badani. Maybe it was just his awesome name.

 

[Anil]

Player A scores 132, 152 and 122 in his last 3 innings. He then misses a game through injury and Player B scores 83 in that game. All 4 innings are good knocks and influence the outcome of the game in some way.
Does Player A not deserve to come back into the side? Of course he does. Player B has done well sitting in, but can't userp Player A just because he got injured.

actually player a scores 4, 45 & 122 and then misses a game through injury and player b scores 91...none of player a's knocks influence any outcomes while player b's knock influences the test in a huge way...try again rich...

 

[Richard]

Did I not try to point-out that I knew this wasn't really referential to the Yuvraj-Kaif case? I'm not really arguing that any more - I think you've got a fair point that maybe Kaif deserved selection for that Mohali game more than Yuvraj did.

That reply was completely and exclusively related to your comment that:

first of all, no one is or should be "undroppable", in the 90s the only person who had come close to deserving that kind of status in the indian team was tendulkar, in the 2000s, it has been dravid, no one else in this team is close to it....in any case, yuvraj was not in the team to begin with so need not have been dropped while kaif was in and should not have been, that's the crux of the issue

Forget the names in this particular case, it was the general issue.

 

[Anil]

Did I not try to point-out that I knew this wasn't really referential to the Yuvraj-Kaif case? I'm not really arguing that any more - I think you've got a fair point that maybe Kaif deserved selection for that Mohali game more than Yuvraj did.

That reply was completely and exclusively related to your comment that:

Forget the names in this particular case, it was the general issue.

you did say that but also did try to stretch it to an analogy...at least it looked like that to me...if you were not, sorry about drawing out the argument...anyway, i am just glad to see you accept for once that the other person might just have the glimmer of a point in his statements....

 

[Richard]

For once...

 

[sledger]

Indeed, I always had a similar feeling for Hemang Badani. Maybe it was just his awesome name.

quite liked jadeja as well for similar reasons lol.

 

[Anil]

For once...

don't worry, it's all part of the growing up process...

 

[honestbharani]

I do think Kaif got a raw deal as far as tests go. In ODIs, I don't think he is deserving of a place in the best XI or even XV as of now, but in tests, he should be in the scheme of things.


I guess with Laxman and Yuvraj being there along with the big 3, they didn't need another middle order guy, esp. with Dravid showing an inclination to play with 5 bowlers more often than not. But that is real tough on Kaif and he should come in whenever a vacancy opens up.