• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Yuvraj Singh and Mohammad Kaif

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Its hardly 'far too late' for either of them.

This isn't tennis. Batsman generally peak far later in their age. Obviously with Indian cricket it may be an issue since players get discarded and forgotten too easily, but its not too late for Kaif, and definitely not for Yuvraj.

Even at 25/26 he's still young, and he's already showed immense maturity in ODI cricket. Hopefully he's pass it on to the test arena.

And I can't see how anyone can deny Kaif's been harshly treated. Saves India from defeat at home vs. England, and then is dropped next test. Similar things happened in WI.

In ODI cricket he has his limitations, but he was playing brilliantly at #3 in 2005 before he got shifted back down the order again.
 

adharcric

International Coach
Its hardly 'far too late' for either of them.

This isn't tennis. Batsman generally peak far later in their age. Obviously with Indian cricket it may be an issue since players get discarded and forgotten too easily, but its not too late for Kaif, and definitely not for Yuvraj.

Even at 25/26 he's still young, and he's already showed immense maturity in ODI cricket. Hopefully he's pass it on to the test arena.

And I can't see how anyone can deny Kaif's been harshly treated. Saves India from defeat at home vs. England, and then is dropped next test. Similar things happened in WI.

In ODI cricket he has his limitations, but he was playing brilliantly at #3 in 2005 before he got shifted back down the order again.
Precisely. I was dead set certain at that point that Kaif would finally go on to big things ...
 

sohummisra

U19 Debutant
Yuvraj should become a pretty standard fixture in the Test XI once Ganguly retires. He will also help the drought of left-handers in the batting XI. Kaif, I feel, will be making a comeback sometime in the future. If players like Laxman and Jaffer had second chances, I cannot see why Kaif can't. He needs to put in decent performances in the Ranji now, though, and his fielding will definitely help out. ODI cricket should be a harder comeback since Kaif has been overlooked in the coming tours, which would have been a nice way to ease him back in. I think he still has a chance for Tests, though.
 

Isura

U19 Captain
Off-topic, but Kaif's older brother (Saif) is playing for my club this season. He is a really nice guy!.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
And I can't see how anyone can deny Kaif's been harshly treated. Saves India from defeat at home vs. England, and then is dropped next test. Similar things happened in WI.
Laxman was dropped in the England series, and no-one seemed to say much then.

In any case, Kaif's hardly done a Katich.
 

irfan

State Captain
Agree with most of the sentiments above, Kaif has certainly got an awful deal from the selectors. I know Richard is saying that his non-selection is justified based on India having batsman with better talent (Ganguly, Laxman, Yuraj etc.) but in Test match cricket - like a Dravid, Kaif is a disciplined grafters who would always dig us out of a hole.

Whenever Kaif made a score, he was almost certainly dropped too soon afterwards without EVER getting a chance to establish himself - it seems the Indian selectors always pick on reputation and Kaif was always the scapegoat when a 'big name' was suddenly fit/in-form and never played enough consecutive matches to create a REPUTATION for himself - hence he was easy to cut adrift.
I've felt out of the subcontinent, we've relied too heavily on Dravid but Kaif would certainly lend extra stability in the middle order.

In ODI's I would probably go for the more attacking, dashing youthful options (Raina, Uthappa etc. ) as ODI's are usually loaded in the batsman's favour and you would probably need only the one steady hand (Dravid) with the rest strokemakers.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Agree with most of the sentiments above, Kaif has certainly got an awful deal from the selectors. I know Richard is saying that his non-selection is justified based on India having batsman with better talent (Ganguly, Laxman, Yuraj etc.) but in Test match cricket - like a Dravid, Kaif is a disciplined grafters who would always dig us out of a hole.
TBH, a strokeplayer can dig you out of a hole, too, can't he? I don't really mind how my team escapes from a hole, but I do think I'd back the better batsman to get me out of it. And hence, I'd always have picked the four aforementioned (and Yuvraj Singh for that matter) ahead of Kaif, who I've never rated as anything more than a decent First-Class batsman.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Laxman was dropped in the England series, and no-one seemed to say much then.

In any case, Kaif's hardly done a Katich.
Are you serious? Many said something.

But the fact is, he faced one ball that series, and he got out to it.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
OK, maybe it'd have been more accurate to say... not as many people said as much then as people have about Kaif.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
OK, maybe it'd have been more accurate to say... not as many people said as much then as people have about Kaif.
Probably because we all know what Laxman can do, whereas Kaif is a fairly unknown player at Test level and most people feel he should've been given an extended run to prove himself.
 

irfan

State Captain
TBH, a strokeplayer can dig you out of a hole, too, can't he? I don't really mind how my team escapes from a hole, but I do think I'd back the better batsman to get me out of it. And hence, I'd always have picked the four aforementioned (and Yuvraj Singh for that matter) ahead of Kaif, who I've never rated as anything more than a decent First-Class batsman.
Yes, a strokemaker can dig you out. Its just that Kaif will do it far more consistently and effectively than the likes of Yuvraj & Ganguly.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yes, a strokemaker can dig you out. Its just that Kaif will do it far more consistently and effectively than the likes of Yuvraj & Ganguly.
No, Kaif will look like he is digging you out of the hole because he will be scrappy in nature and dogged at the crease while Yuvraj will play his shots and keep the runs ticking over, despite looking a bit more carefree.
 

Salamuddin

International Debutant
I can't see how a bloke who averaged 63 in his last 5 tests is not even in teh scheme of things as far as test selection (Kaif), includinga match saving innings of 91.

Totally nonsensical that he's not in the team.....
Problem with Dickinson is that he looks at a player's first class avergae and says...nope, he ain't good enough....which IMO, is not always the smartest thing to do.

First class averages is that they only tell u so much......Kaif has made runs under pressure against good attacks at int level in tests....I value that much, more than anything he's done at 1st class level.
 

adharcric

International Coach
No, Kaif will look like he is digging you out of the hole because he will be scrappy in nature and dogged at the crease while Yuvraj will play his shots and keep the runs ticking over, despite looking a bit more carefree.
Good point. Kaif is a valuable batsman but it's not because of his batting style, rather his grit and the ability to handle pressure (and some skill of course).
For example, Dhoni looked increasingly reliable as the SA test series progressed, even though he has an awkward style. Yuvraj, for that matter, is good under pressure.
 
Last edited:

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I can't see how a bloke who averaged 63 in his last 5 tests is not even in teh scheme of things as far as test selection (Kaif), includinga match saving innings of 91.

Totally nonsensical that he's not in the team.....
Problem with Dickinson is that he looks at a player's first class avergae and says...nope, he ain't good enough....which IMO, is not always the smartest thing to do.

First class averages is that they only tell u so much......Kaif has made runs under pressure against good attacks at int level in tests....I value that much, more than anything he's done at 1st class level.
Thing is, the likes of Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Ganguly and even of times Yuvraj have also done that... and their First-Class averages just happen to be 10 or more runs higher.

So therefore it makes no sense to even suggest that Kaif might be better than any of them. It's not like Kaif's First-Class record is poor, though he did little of note when playing over here. Just not as good as some others'.
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Thing is, the likes of Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Ganguly and even of times Yuvraj have also done that... and their First-Class averages just happen to be 10 or more runs higher.

So therefore it makes no sense to even suggest that Kaif might be better than any of them. It's not like Kaif's First-Class record is poor, though he did little of note when playing over here. Just not as good as some others'.
relevance??? the point is that he was removed from the team when he was performing well and he did not deserve to be....even if he is as bad as you make him out to be which of course is debatable, he should at least be allowed to have his run and then be kicked out if and when he shows that he clearly doesn't belong, not like this...
 

Top