Vaughan quits as ODI captain

[wpdavid]

I think Vaughan has done the right thing by retiring. He's still a very good test player and captain, and he should have that job until 2009, providing he doesn't completely lose form.

I'm a big fan of James Benning, and think he would be a good replacement while Trescothick is unavailable. The main problem in the England ODI side is bowling. Anderson hasn't had a great start to the season, Plunkett has basically ruled himself out of contention for the next year after his scattergun performances in the Test series, and Mahmood just hasn't impressed at all.

So I would suggest we look to:

Graham Onions (Durham) - the English management seem to fancy him, and due to a lock of options, he will probably get his chance. However, considering they at the same ground, I am concerned that both Punkett and Harmison have better county records this season.

Chris Tremlett (Hampshire) - the poor injury prone lad may well have been a fixture in the England side by now. He's back playing relatively regularly for Hampshire, and has done well. Why not give him another go.

Tim Bresnan (Yorkshire) - bowled well in spells this season. He had a bit of an unfair baptism of fire against Sri Lanka last year, but it would be harsh to discard him for evermore after that debacle. He would also offer some big hitting lower down.

So given that, I would go for:

Cook
Benning
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Shah/Sales/Hildreth/Joyce
Prior
Bresnan
Tremlett
Onions
Panesar

The final batting spot was a tough choice... ideally Flintoff or Bopara would play, but since niether are fit, I've gone for an out and out batsman, with Collingwood, Bell and Pietersen making up the other 10 overs. A bit risky perhaps, but I can't think of anyone who could replace even Bopara.

I'd be surprised if Anderson & Broad weren't in the squad, even though form & fitness respectively haven't been great. Benning hasn't been at the top of his game this summer, apart from that match when they almost made 500. Which means that he'll probably be picked, I suppose. I would imagine that Prior will bat higher than number 7.

 

[gio]

Prior's been tried at no.1/2 before, and subsequently been dropped. I think they might leave him down the order for now, and if he continues to improve then stick him up top.

Is Broad fit? I thought he's only just returned from injury. I'd probably have him in the squad, forgot all about him to be honest! Jimmy Anderson probably will be included, and I think James Benning is worth a gamble. If he does well then keep him in - he can be an explosive player, but if he can't cut it against a poor WI attack, then you send him back to Surrey after the series.

 

[Richard]

It does sound strange to me, not least because I was looking forward to him establishing himself at number 3 in the side, and he won't have a better opportunity than against this WI side.

TBH, I wasn't completely sold on him, especially in the shorter game. He demonstrated, in the WC, an absolutely astonishingly calmness and sensibility. But he doesn't immediately strike me as a ODI-standard player at the current time. And his domestic record is hardly outstanding to back that up. However, in the longer game he's enjoying a great stint at the moment and I think he'd do well to continue that as long as possible.

btw what's with Harmy as your avatar?
1. A tribute to a decent spell yesterday?
2. Irony
3. The Angel of the North appearing to you in a vision

I'm guessing that number 3 is the most likely.

Liam (Pup Clarke) has answered my question and this is probably the most appropriate time to say... you've uploaded an avatar!!!!!! This is certainly the first time I've ever seen you with one... is this perminant?

 

[GIMH]

I talked him into it

 

[Richard]

I think Vaughan has done the right thing by retiring. He's still a very good test player and captain, and he should have that job until 2009, providing he doesn't completely lose form.

I'm a big fan of James Benning, and think he would be a good replacement while Trescothick is unavailable. The main problem in the England ODI side is bowling. Anderson hasn't had a great start to the season, Plunkett has basically ruled himself out of contention for the next year after his scattergun performances in the Test series, and Mahmood just hasn't impressed at all.

So I would suggest we look to:

Graham Onions (Durham) - the English management seem to fancy him, and due to a lock of options, he will probably get his chance. However, considering they at the same ground, I am concerned that both Punkett and Harmison have better county records this season.

Chris Tremlett (Hampshire) - the poor injury prone lad may well have been a fixture in the England side by now. He's back playing relatively regularly for Hampshire, and has done well. Why not give him another go.

Tim Bresnan (Yorkshire) - bowled well in spells this season. He had a bit of an unfair baptism of fire against Sri Lanka last year, but it would be harsh to discard him for evermore after that debacle. He would also offer some big hitting lower down.

So given that, I would go for:

Cook
Benning
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Shah/Sales/Hildreth/Joyce
Prior
Bresnan
Tremlett
Onions
Panesar

The final batting spot was a tough choice... ideally Flintoff or Bopara would play, but since niether are fit, I've gone for an out and out batsman, with Collingwood, Bell and Pietersen making up the other 10 overs. A bit risky perhaps, but I can't think of anyone who could replace even Bopara.

TBH, I thought Tremlett and Bresnan's ODI careers to date aptly summed-up their talents. In the case of the latter, if he ever has a notable ODI career I'll eat my computer. I've always, also, thought of Tremlett as one who's been fortunate to have his record made to look impressive by both poor batting and the Rose Bowl pitch. I don't think his bowling as abysmally as he did in his ODIs to date is an exception.

 

[Pup Clarke]

gio, Bresnan, Tremlett, Onions and Panesar in an England OD team.

 

[gio]

gio, Bresnan, Tremlett, Onions and Panesar in an England OD team.

It's that or Mr Inconsistent Jimmy Anderson, Stuart-I've-barely-hit-puberty-Broad and Saj Mahmood. The only one out of those three who would be any good is Stuart Broad, but he has just returned from injury, and is still very very raw.

It just shows that English bowling, at the moment, is pretty weak.

 

[Richard]

Anderson > Broad at the current time, can't see how anyone could argue otherwise, TBH.

EDIT: and Anderson > Bresnan beyond all question.

 

[Prince EWS]

It's that or Mr Inconsistent Jimmy Anderson, Stuart-I've-barely-hit-puberty-Broad and Saj Mahmood. The only one out of those three who would be any good is Stuart Broad, but he has just returned from injury, and is still very very raw.

It just shows that English bowling, at the moment, is pretty weak.

Anderson will be in the team, and deservedly so. What exactly have the bowlers you listed done to suggest they are as consistent - let alone as good - as "Mr Inconsistency"? I agree that you can't really get that much worse than Saj but there are better players to pick for a one day team than Bresnan and Onions.

 

[Pup Clarke]

but there are better players to pick for a one day team than Bresnan and Onions.

England are really struggling for names now, Lewis and Flintoff are both injured and Plunkett is so wayward. I suppose other candidates are Sidebottom, Chapple, Mascheranhas, Kabir Ali (), Shreck (pushing it?.)

 

[Prince EWS]

TBH, I thought Tremlett and Bresnan's ODI careers to date aptly summed-up their talents. In the case of the latter, if he ever has a notable ODI career I'll eat my computer. I've always, also, thought of Tremlett as one who's been fortunate to have his record made to look impressive by both poor batting and the Rose Bowl pitch. I don't think his bowling as abysmally as he did in his ODIs to date is an exception.

Despite being completely dire in his ODIs so far and being one of the most ridiculous selections ever at the time, I actually wouldn't write Bresnan off completely. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with his action or his approach to suggest he'd have the accuracy problems he has enjoyed so far - he could well just have something click eventually, IMO.

That's certainly not to say he should be picked now or anything, but given he's only around twenty IIRC and his action seems very, very sound, I wouldn't write him off in the long term.

I'd be interested in seeing what sort of team you'd come up with though, Richard. It'd be different to your previous lots, given your stance on always building towards the next World Cup.

 

[gio]

Anderson will be in the team, and deservedly so. What exactly have the bowlers you listed done to suggest they are as consistent - let alone as good - as "Mr Inconsistency"? I agree that you can't really get that much worse than Saj but there are better players to pick for a one day team than Bresnan and Onions.

Bare in mind I'm only going by match reports here - I've seen that Bresnan has been pretty economical and performed very well in good bowling attack at Yorkshire. He's regularly picked up wickets and out performed team mates such as Jason Gillespie, Darren Gough et all.

James Anderson has not played well for England since 2003, and has not done much better for Lancashire. Do you really see James Anderson as being the man to lead England to OD success?

 

[gio]

England are really struggling for names now, Lewis and Flintoff are both injured and Plunkett is so wayward. I suppose other candidates are Sidebottom, Chapple, Mascheranhas, Kabir Ali (), Shreck (pushing it?.)

Kabir Ali has been and gone. A backward step in my opinion. If Mascarenhas wasn't picked in 2005, I doubt he'll be picked now - he doesn't seem to be rated by the selectors.

 

[gio]

Despite being completely dire in his ODIs so far and being one of the most ridiculous selections ever at the time, I actually wouldn't write Bresnan off completely. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with his action or his approach to suggest he'd have the accuracy problems he has enjoyed so far - he could well just have something click eventually, IMO.

That's certainly not to say he should be picked now or anything, but given he's only around twenty IIRC and his action seems very, very sound, I wouldn't write him off in the long term.

I'd be interested in seeing what sort of team you'd come up with though, Richard. It'd be different to your previous lots, given your stance on always building towards the next World Cup.

His selection was rediculous at the time, but now he seems to be inform for Yorkshire, why not give him a chance?

 

[Prince EWS]

Bare in mind I'm only going by match reports here - I've seen that Bresnan has been pretty economical and performed very well in good bowling attack at Yorkshire. He's regularly picked up wickets and out performed team mates such as Jason Gillespie, Darren Gough et all.

James Anderson has not played well for England since 2003, and has not done much better for Lancashire. Do you really see James Anderson as being the man to lead England to OD success?

James Anderson has performed well for England on several occassions in one day cricket since 2003, actually, and is a highly under-rated one day bowler. He's a bit inconsistent yes, but that has IMO been mainly a result of his injuries which have seen him go in and out of the side with such regularity.

He's not the perfect bowler by any means, but he's certainly done enough to command his place in the England ODI side for the time being - especially if the best alternatives are Bresnan and Onions.

 

[Richard]

Despite being completely dire in his ODIs so far and being one of the most ridiculous selections ever at the time, I actually wouldn't write Bresnan off completely. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with his action or his approach to suggest he'd have the accuracy problems he has enjoyed so far - he could well just have something click eventually, IMO.

That's certainly not to say he should be picked now or anything, but given he's only around twenty IIRC and his action seems very, very sound, I wouldn't write him off in the long term.

He's only 22 (he's a year older than me) but he's actually been around a fair while now. OK, you don't expect people to be tearing it up at the age of 16 (even though James Harris did not so long ago) which was how old Bresnan was when he made his debut (and I saw that game). But, well... if he was going to do something notable I'd expect him to have done it by now, really. I might be wrong, but I just can't see anything changing in his case.

I'd be interested in seeing what sort of team you'd come up with though, Richard. It'd be different to your previous lots, given your stance on always building towards the next World Cup.

Yeah, the team I'd pick now would be completely different to the one I'd have picked in February. It's a bit tricky at the moment, though, as I've not been able to keep as close an eye on the domestic scene as I usually do at the start of this season. I must catch-up before I name a team - I don't want to pick someone without knowing about his season's record of 5.31-an-over at 73.

 

[gio]

James Anderson has performed well for England on several occassions in one day cricket since 2003, actually, and is a highly under-rated one day bowler. He's a bit inconsistent yes, but that has IMO been mainly a result of his injuries which have seen him go in and out of the side with such regularity.

He's not the perfect bowler by any means, but he's certainly done enough to command his place in the England ODI side for the time being - especially if the best alternatives are Bresnan and Onions.

But Anderson's not exactly in form this season. That may have something to do with Murali 'stealing' his wickets, but what he's done is nothing compared to what Bresnan's done this season.

Onions was more of a 'selectors pick.' Personally, I've seen very little of Onions, so I can't really make a call either way. I just know that the England management seem to like him...

 

[Richard]

As they liked Liam Plunkett and Sajid Mahmood...

 

[gio]

As they liked Liam Plunkett and Sajid Mahmood...

Fair enough - I'm happy to let Onions go, don't have the first clue how he bowls as I've never seen him in action.

But guys, if we accept that Hoggard won't get picked, and Saj and Plunkett aren't gooid enough, then who is going to make up an England OD bowling attack? Simon Jones is on the long road back to recovery and he should be saved for the tests, Lewis hasn't done much when given his chance and is injured as well, who else is there?

If Bresnan isn't good enough, who the heck is? Andy Caddick?

 

[Pup Clarke]

What's wrong with liking "wicket takers"?.