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Thread: On second thoughts: Imran Khan's Pakistan

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    U19 Cricketer gunner's Avatar
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    On second thoughts: Imran Khan's Pakistan

    This article looks past the shakoor rana incidents and gives a true view of the pakistani side of the 80's so maligned because of bad umpiring

    On second thoughts: Imran Khan's Pakistan

    The legendary West Indies side of the 80s never managed to beat them, yet Pakistan's greatest side are nowhere near cricket's pantheon.

    That West Indies side is justly in cricket's pantheon, along with the contemporary Australians, the Invincibles, the lost South Africans of the 70s and England in the mid 50s. Yet the side they could not break are nowhere to be seen. The cornered tigers of 1992, who won the World Cup in such spectacular style, are the most celebrated side in Pakistan's history. But they only peaked for 15 giddy days: Imran's side did it for nearly 15 years. And, without Imran, the new breed were savaged in the Caribbean in 1992-93. Although there was crossover between the sides, they were essentially different in nature: the World Cup winners had an injection of youth in Inzamam-ul-Haq, Aqib Javed, Mushtaq Ahmed, Aamir Sohail and Moin Khan. Imran's 80s outfit were not so much cornered tigers as streetwise foxes, experienced, cute, and trusted by very few.
    http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/20...ran_khans.html

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    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
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    No-one who knows anything about cricket history would be surprised by that article. You could actually go back before the 1980's to around 1976 & 1977 when Pakistan drew a series in Australia and came close to beating WI in the Caribbean when they unleashed Croft & Garner for the first time. From the mid 70's to the early 90's, they were the one side that consistently stood up to the current number 1 side, both at home & away. People who write off Pakistan as always having been inconsistent underachievers simply don't know their facts.

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    First Class Debutant Bouncer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpdavid View Post
    People who write off Pakistan as always having been inconsistent underachievers simply don't know their facts.
    Absolutely Spot on!

    No-one who knows anything about cricket history would be surprised by that article. You could actually go back before the 1980's to around 1976 & 1977 when Pakistan drew a series in Australia and came close to beating WI in the Caribbean when they unleashed Croft & Garner for the first time. From the mid 70's to the early 90's, they were the one side that consistently stood up to the current number 1 side, both at home & away.
    I remember reading about that series in WI in 70's when i was in 7th grade and i was reading Imran's Bio "All Round View".

    One interesting thing he wrote was that when they landed in WI (that was after AUS series where Imran bowled one of the best spells of fast bowling in cricket history and won Sydney test for Pak), the word out there was that this guy(Imran) bowls as fast as LIllee. Now during their first net session in WI, gary sobers was around and he looked at
    Imran andsaid well if this guy can bowl as fast as lillee then Lillee must be bowling half his pace.Imran said he made a note of those words and was going to do anything to make Sobers change his opinion, those days Imran used to bowl with a Jeff Thompson like Slinging action and he enjoyed bowling at those quick WI wickets and by the end of the series he took 25 wickets in 5 games and even played with a slight injury. Its the same series wher a famous comment (who knows true or not) was made by a short leg fielder of Pak about Alvin Kalicharan, who according to him was shaking in one of the games while facing Imran. Imran remembers the role of WI crowd in that series and, wrote that crowd senesd
    that imran was Pak's main fast bowler, so every time Imran went to bat, crowd would want WI bowlers to bowl bouncer at imran, as Imran (unlike the indain teams pace (LOL) bowlers that toured WI a season b4) also gave WI alot of shot pitched stuff to WI batsmen.

    imran went over that series in detail and specially wrote very highly about Wasim Raja's brave batting in that series, the way Wasim raja was facing the bowling of Roberts (WI's best bowler in the series) was absolutely un matchable. In one of the games where ROberts was bowling absolutely furiously, Asif Iqbal being a senior cricker asked
    Raja, if hewants Asif to face more of ROberts and Raja declined offer saying that he doesnt mind facing robers. In that series Record # of sixes in a test series(i dont know if he still holds the record or not) Another player that got mentioned in very good words was Haroon Rashid who started his career from that series and imran wrote that he still remembers the two sixes of bouncers bowled at Haroon by Croft that he launched towards mid wicket.
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    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
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    Thanks for that, which was a great read. It would be wonderful to see some footage from those mid70's series, but presumably it doesn't exist.


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    U19 Cricketer gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpdavid View Post
    Thanks for that, which was a great read. It would be wonderful to see some footage from those mid70's series, but presumably it doesn't exist.
    search on youtube

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Think cricket in Pakistan only started having cameras there in the mid-1980s. And even then it wasn't ball-by-ball screening until the mid-1990s IIRR. There's certainly some footage of the infamous Rana-Gatting instance, but it seems to just be BBC-owned for highlights purposes.

    I've never seen footage of cricket anywhere other than England and Australia in the 1970s.
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    First Class Debutant Bouncer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Think cricket in Pakistan only started having cameras there in the mid-1980s. And even then it wasn't ball-by-ball screening until the mid-1990s IIRR. There's certainly some footage of the infamous Rana-Gatting instance, but it seems to just be BBC-owned for highlights purposes.

    I've never seen footage of cricket anywhere other than England and Australia in the 1970s.
    The Live coverage of cricket started in Pak during the Pak-India series of 1977-78. and from there onwards TV broadcasted almost all the international games played in Pak. Infact in Mid 80's Cricket coverage was awesome and PTV (The only TV in Pak at that time) showed cricket from all over the World. My Brother told me that he followed the Botham Ashes from PTV's late night Highlights of that series and he was on summer vaccation visiting our grand parents in a small village.....What Pak TV showed alot from non-Pak cricket games was cricketplayed during the Eng season, as it was same time as summer hollidays for School/College kids in Pak and that is how the Botham Ashes and all the black wash series........from that Pak-India series in 1978 he tells me that he missed the best part of the series When Imran khan came to bat in Karachi test as our Aunt took him with her to shopping and he was told she will buy him ice cream if he goes with her, Poor guy tradded one of the greatest moments in cricket for some ice cream.

    The first Abroad game that PTV broadcasted live was the last day play from the sydny test in 1976 when Pak won and i am told stories of people who got up at 3:00am in Pak to watch the first instance of Live cricket broadcasted from abroad.

    I've never seen footage of cricket anywhere other than England and Australia in the 1970s.
    I am pretty certain that after AUs and Eng, in early 80's PTV had the best live coverage of cricket played in Pak.
    Last edited by Bouncer; 15-06-2007 at 04:00 PM.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Awesome, I never knew that.

    Strange that not a single ball of live cricket had ever been televised in India in 1977.

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    International Debutant Salamuddin's Avatar
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    Pakistan were a good team in that period BUT I think its ludicrous people think that team was one of the greatest cricketing teams ever.

    They NEVER won anything big......probably the biggest challenge for Pakistan in that time was to win a test series in the West Indies or in Australia and they achieved neither.
    They drew 1-1 in WI in 87 and lost 0-1 to Australia in 1989 - they couldn't beat the West Indies team at home also in 1986 or 1991. hardly the hallmark of an all time great team.
    And let's face, it they need a huge slice of luck to win the 1992 World Cup ......I don't think anyone would seriously have called them the best ODI team in the world even though they have played exceedingly well for 2-3 games in that tournament.

    You look at the other great teams recently ....Australia in the 2000's and the Windies in the 1980's....they bothe were able to surmount probably their biggest challenges winning in India for the former and winning in India/Pakistan/Australia for the latter.
    Pakistan never achieved anything on that scale.
    Last edited by Salamuddin; 16-06-2007 at 12:01 AM.

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    Cricketer Of The Year Xuhaib's Avatar
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    "When West Indies returned to Pakistan, in 1990-91, the hosts had lost a Qadir and found a Waqar Younis. It turned out to be a decent trade, and he took nine wickets as Pakistan breezed to victory by eight wickets in the first Test despite only three players reaching double figures in their first innings: Shoaib (86 in eight hours), Malik (102) and Imran (73 not out). History repeated as West Indies cantered home by seven wickets in the second Test, and again in the third as Imran - just as in 1986-87 - ensured a draw by batting five hours for an unbeaten 58 on the final day."
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This is for those who in another thread have been arguing that Imran boosted his batting average by scoring most of his runs in high scoring draws.
    Last edited by Xuhaib; 16-06-2007 at 04:34 AM.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venter View Post
    They NEVER won anything big......probably the biggest challenge for Pakistan in that time was to win a test series in the West Indies or in Australia and they achieved neither.
    Winning a Test series in Australia would have been easy meat for Pakistan... had they played them at the time they were rubbish. Unlike everyone else, however, they did not catch them at such a time. Australia's last home series before becoming crap after losing Lilee, Marsh, Chappell, Hughes, Yallop, Wessels, Hogg and Alderman was against... Pakistan. Who did they play first-up after becoming good again in 1989? Yes... Pakistan.

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    Cricketer Of The Year Xuhaib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Winning a Test series in Australia would have been easy meat for Pakistan... had they played them at the time they were rubbish. Unlike everyone else, however, they did not catch them at such a time. Australia's last home series before becoming crap after losing Lilee, Marsh, Chappell, Hughes, Yallop, Wessels, Hogg and Alderman was against... Pakistan. Who did they play first-up after becoming good again in 1989? Yes... Pakistan.
    Javaid played that series with major back problems so that also hindered are chances but also worth mentioning is that the umpiring in the first test of that 89 series is one of the worst that I have ever seen.

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    International Debutant Salamuddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Winning a Test series in Australia would have been easy meat for Pakistan... had they played them at the time they were rubbish. Unlike everyone else, however, they did not catch them at such a time. Australia's last home series before becoming crap after losing Lilee, Marsh, Chappell, Hughes, Yallop, Wessels, Hogg and Alderman was against... Pakistan. Who did they play first-up after becoming good again in 1989? Yes... Pakistan.

    Not really that relevant Richard. It'snot a question of how good Australia were, we're talking about how good PAKISTAN were........If Pakistan were an all time great team as is claimed surely they would have been able to beat Australia in 1989....beacuse even then, Australia weren't that good although they had endured the worst of their slump. I know because I watched that series.
    And yet Pakistan crashed to a 0-1 defeat - hardly the mark of a champion side as I said.
    And Pakistan NEVER managed to beat the West Indies.....at home or away.

    Even Pakistan's win in India in 1987 was hardly the mark of a dominant side....they won a crucial toss on a dicey wicket in the last test and scraped home. Two of the other ytests were 50-50 and the other two India had the upper hand in.
    Pakistan also did not win when they played in New Zealand in 1984 and again in 1988.

    You get the picture.....their overall results do not show out to be the "great" team their supporters have made them out to be.
    Last edited by Salamuddin; 16-06-2007 at 05:46 AM.

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    International Debutant Salamuddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuhaib View Post
    Javaid played that series with major back problems so that also hindered are chances but also worth mentioning is that the umpiring in the first test of that 89 series is one of the worst that I have ever seen.

    Well when Australia toured Pakistan in 1988, the umpiring wasn't eactly all that flash by virtually all accounts.....

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    Cricketer Of The Year Xuhaib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venter View Post
    Not really that relevant Richard. It'snot a question of how good Australia, we're talking about how good PAKISTAN were........If Pakistan were an all time great team as is claimed surely they would have been able to beat Australia in 1989....beacuse even then, Australia weren't that good although they had endurede is that the worst of their slump. I know because I watched that series.
    And yet Pakistan crashed to a 0-1 defeat - hardly the mark of a champion side as I said.
    And Pakistan NEVER managed to beat the West Indies.....at home or away.

    Even Pakistan's win in India in 1987 was hardly the mark of a dominant side....they won a crucial toss on a dicey wicket in the last test and scraped home. Two of the other ytests were 50-50 and the other two India had the upper hand in.
    Pakistan also did not win when they played in New Zealand in 1984 and again in 1988.

    You get the picture.....their overall results do not show out to be the "great" team their supporters have made them out to be.
    I agree with you that they were not an all-time great side probably a rung below the sides like current Aus, 80's windies or the invincibles but what I do believe is that the Pakistani side of the 80's is easily the best sub continent side of all time which itself is a great achievment.

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