On second thoughts: Imran Khan's Pakistan

[Salamuddin]

It's give or take I suppose....Pakistan did have some pretty poor moments in the 1990's which the team in the 80's probably didn't have.
But they also had some more outrageous successes.....

But I still stand firm that Imran's side was NOT an all time great outift.
A good team no doubt but I reckon Australia at the peak of their powers 2001 would have wiped the floor with Imran's team and I feel had the West Indies played Pakistan again at home after 1987-1988, they would have beaten them as well.
IMO that series was a one off case of Pakistan playing above themeslves and the West Indies not being at their peak...

 

[Salamuddin]

1) Lost to SL twice in 95,99
2) Lost to Zim at home
3) Got smashed by a good but not great Windies
4) Beaten at home by Aus in 98 and followed up by a whitewash in 99.

In terms of talent 90's Pakistan was brilliant but internal politics, match fixing and other off field activities meant they were never consistent which led to underachievment

Small point but wasn't Pakistan's 2nd series loss to Sri Lanka in 2000 and not in 1999.
Also their 2-0 loss to the Wrest Indies in 1993 was hardly a crime....the West Indoies were still a pretty tough outfit at that time.

 

[Xuhaib]

Small point but wasn't Pakistan's 2nd series loss to Sri Lanka in 2000 and not in 1999.

Jan-Feb 2000, technically you are right

 

[Xuhaib]

It's give or take I suppose....Pakistan did have some pretty poor moments in the 1990's which the team in the 80's probably didn't have.
But they also had some more outrageous successes.....

But I still stand firm that Imran's side was NOT an all time great outift.
A good team no doubt but I reckon Australia at the peak of their powers 2001 would have wiped the floor with Imran's team and I feel had the West Indies played Pakistan again at home after 1987-1988, they would have beaten them as well.
IMO that series was a one off case of Pakistan playing above themeslves and the West Indies not being at their peak...

The key was Imran, I am sure if Imran had played against the current Aus side at his peak he would have raised his game ala Freddie in Ashes 2005 and the result would be much closer then you predict.

 

[Poker Boy]

In the late 1980s they were the 2nd best team in the world and achieved first ever away series wins in India and England, Remember the Test they won in the Caribin 1988 was when the Windies had no Viv and no Marshall. As for them winning in Australia there is no guarentee they would have beaten the crap 1980s Aussie team down under. Remember in 1979 they only drew 1-1 in a two Test series against the crap Packer weakened Aussie team (when Pakistan had their own Packer players back)and even then it took an amazing performance by Safraz or they would have lost 0-2 to a team England had stuffed 5-1. The reason why they have never won in Australia? One word - BOUNCE. Their batsmen don't fancy it as anybody who saw their batting at OT last year will confirm.

 

[shortpitched713]

I'd take the late 80s early 90s Pakistan over the late 90s early 00s any day even though the latter were probably more talented.

 

[gunner]

The late 80's early 90's team was the best pakistan have ever had
players like miandad,imran,shoaib mohammad,waqar at his peak and wasim too.

it had a mix of everything, pace,swing,gritty batting,explosive batting, good fielders, players who didnt take no **** off other players(miandad,sohail)

the late 90's early 2000 team was the most talented but was never consistent.
they could explode at any time and beat the other team within a matter of 1-2 overs but the team of late 80's early 90's was far more consistent and a hard working side

 

[Richard]

Not really that relevant Richard. It'snot a question of how good Australia were, we're talking about how good PAKISTAN were........If Pakistan were an all time great team as is claimed surely they would have been able to beat Australia in 1989....beacuse even then, Australia weren't that good although they had endured the worst of their slump. I know because I watched that series.
And yet Pakistan crashed to a 0-1 defeat - hardly the mark of a champion side as I said.
And Pakistan NEVER managed to beat the West Indies.....at home or away.

Even Pakistan's win in India in 1987 was hardly the mark of a dominant side....they won a crucial toss on a dicey wicket in the last test and scraped home. Two of the other ytests were 50-50 and the other two India had the upper hand in.
Pakistan also did not win when they played in New Zealand in 1984 and again in 1988.

You get the picture.....their overall results do not show out to be the "great" team their supporters have made them out to be.

The central point I was making was that beating Australia around that time was actually the least important thing of all.

But things changed very quickly... whatever anyone says, IMO Australia were pretty damn good from 1989 onwards having been very poor up to then.

 

[Richard]

In the late 1980s they were the 2nd best team in the world and achieved first ever away series wins in India and England, Remember the Test they won in the Caribin 1988 was when the Windies had no Viv and no Marshall. As for them winning in Australia there is no guarentee they would have beaten the crap 1980s Aussie team down under. Remember in 1979 they only drew 1-1 in a two Test series against the crap Packer weakened Aussie team (when Pakistan had their own Packer players back)and even then it took an amazing performance by Safraz or they would have lost 0-2 to a team England had stuffed 5-1. The reason why they have never won in Australia? One word - BOUNCE. Their batsmen don't fancy it as anybody who saw their batting at OT last year will confirm.

Sorry, I just can't get my head around players being as good as Javed, Zaheer, Salim Malik, etc. and not being able to handle a bit of bounce.

Especially if the bowlers in question were the might of David Gilbert.

 

[gunner]

Sorry, I just can't get my head around players being as good as Javed, Zaheer, Salim Malik, etc. and not being able to handle a bit of bounce.

Especially if the bowlers in question were the might of David Gilbert.

miandad

                      Mat    I  NO  Runs HS1  HS2  HS3     Ave 100  50   0
in Australia          16   28   1  1028 131  129*  79   38.07   2   7   1
in England            16   24   3   979 260  153*  88   46.61   2   5   3
in India              13   21   2   948  99   94   76   49.89   0  11   1
in New Zealand         9   14   2   928 271  160* 118   77.33   3   3   0
in Pakistan           60   86  13  4481 280* 211  206   61.38  14  17   0
in Sri Lanka           3    4   0    63  36   23    4   15.75   0   0   1
in West Indies         7   12   0   405 114  102   43   33.75   2   0   0

Abbas

in Australia          15   28   1  1097 101   90   90   40.62   1  10   3
in England             9   15   0   841 274  240   75   56.06   2   2   1
in India               8   12   1   313  85   50   49   28.45   0   2   1
in New Zealand         7   12   0   236 135   40   15   19.66   1   0   2
in Pakistan           36   51   9  2444 235* 215  186   58.19   8   5   1
in West Indies         3    6   0   131  80   28   14   21.83   0   1   2