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Thread: Criticising Tendulkar the in thing

  1. #1
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Pratters's Avatar
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    Criticising Tendulkar the in thing

    Cricinfo came up with this article lashing on Tendulkar. WTF. Give the man a break! The opponents were Bangladesh but he did not exactly perform poorly.

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    I found two other extremely unwarranted comments in two threads on cw. Honestbharani makes this post:

    For starters, we have someone like Sachin, who, for some reason or the other, is wildly protective of his spot in the batting order.....


    Erm, he likes batting at a particular batting position but who doesn't? Every batsman has his favorite position. But you easily forget that he has been batting at number 4 because Dravid and Chappell wanted him to. He did it in the last 2 ODI series in the World Cup and versus Windies despite being successful opening the batting in ODIs before that in the near past because the team management wanted it. It made no sense for sending him down but he did it.

    Another over reaction, this time by Bouncer:

    Good news (that Ford didn't become coach of India) because not another Coach going to get his effigies burnt on streets of Calcutta after he asks Sachin to have an extended net session to figure out why he keeps on getting bowled or LBW or having Coach Talk someone who likes to be known and treated as Prince.

    Blasting Tendulkar is just the fashionable thing to do it seems.
    Last edited by Pratters; 13-06-2007 at 04:01 AM.

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    Yeah, it sucks too. The guy doesn't deserve it

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    International Coach Barney Rubble's Avatar
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    This kind of thing happens with some players. It's easy to become a scapegoat thanks to the modern media, especially when you're a true great like Sachin. AFAIC those who actually know what they're talking about haven't written him off yet, and with good reason. I wouldn't pay too much attention to what the media are saying.

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    He can't continue living on past glories though, he's a shadow of the player he once was, and although he's come in for a lot of unwanted stick, he's been given so much good publicity through the media in the past that nobody can honestly complain about him being treated unfairly.. He isn't even among the top five batsmen in world cricket at the moment.. Hell, there are guys in his team who get less publicity and score twice the runs...
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    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    Cricinfo came up with this article lashing on Tendulkar. WTF. Give the man a break! The opponents were Bangladesh but he did not exactly perform poorly.

    season 2007 2 3 1 254 122* 101 31 127.00 2 0 0

    I found two other extremely unwarranted comments in two threads on cw. Honestbharani makes this post:

    For starters, we have someone like Sachin, who, for some reason or the other, is wildly protective of his spot in the batting order.....


    Erm, he likes batting at a particular batting position but who doesn't? Every batsman has his favorite position. But you easily forget that he has been batting at number 4 because Dravid and Chappell wanted him to. He did it in the last 2 ODI series in the World Cup and versus Windies despite being successful opening the batting in ODIs before that in the near past because the team management wanted it. It made no sense for sending him down but he did it.

    Another over reaction, this time by Bouncer:

    Good news (that Ford didn't become coach of India) because not another Coach going to get his effigies burnt on streets of Calcutta after he asks Sachin to have an extended net session to figure out why he keeps on getting bowled or LBW or having Coach Talk someone who likes to be known and treated as Prince.

    Blasting Tendulkar is just the fashionable thing to do it seems.



    Ok, first of all, his series against RSA in RSA as far as ODIs go, was not successful at all. It is not just that he didn't make runs, he looked woeful at the crease, something he didn't during the test series, when it looked as though Sachin was regaining his form and touch.

    Secondly, Sachin is wildly protective of his spot in the batting order. Before the team left for the WC in 2003, Sourav pointedly talked about how India have good openers in himself and Viru and a great middle order with Sachin, Rahul and Yuvraj at 4,5 and 6. And I think, just by watching SAchin's reactions when he is batting in positions he doesn't like, he hates to bat anywhere else. I can understand batsmen wanting to bat in certain positions... Laxman mentions that he loves to bat at 3 in every other interview. But it is the way his body language looks when he is batting somewhere else that concerns me. And I think it can be safely argued that Sachin simply hates batting anywhere but 2 in ODIs and anywhere but 4 in tests. And as I said, sometimes it causes problems in the team. Almost every report during the post WC fiasco was consistent in this aspect, that Sachin was not happy to bat at 4 and that was the reason why he wasn't co-operating more with his skipper, Dravid. You can believe what you want to believe but I think there is some truth in it, even though I still refuse to blame Sachin entirely for this. But I feel that batsmen, no matter how good they are, refusing to bat at other positions except their favorite ones are not exactly what a team needs.


    And one more thing, it has always ALWAYS been fashionable to blast Sachin. He is a crowd favorite and perhaps, the most famous and rich Indian sportsman. People always blast successful guys. But I think guys here at CW would know that I have the utmost respect for Sachin and it is only his faults that I am trying to point out here, which you have alluded to as "blasting", which, I think, with all due respect, is a bit of a reach. If you notice the post, I was just trying to point out the faults with almost each player in the side.


    Lastly, while blasting Sachin has been fashionable, the thing that has been even more fashionable has the passionate responses of his fans, always claiming that "he is being unfairly criticized/blamed" everytime one dares to even say as much as "I think Sachin could have done better". It is not so much in CW, but trust me, in India, u say one bad thing about Sachin, u will be lucky if u don't get punched across your face by some fan of his on your way home.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langeveldt View Post
    he's been given so much good publicity through the media in the past that nobody can honestly complain about him being treated unfairly..
    If you screw your gf, it doesn't give you the right to slap her.
    Last edited by Pratters; 13-06-2007 at 04:35 AM.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    Ok, first of all, his series against RSA in RSA as far as ODIs go, was not successful at all. It is not just that he didn't make runs, he looked woeful at the crease, something he didn't during the test series, when it looked as though Sachin was regaining his form and touch.

    Secondly, Sachin is wildly protective of his spot in the batting order. Before the team left for the WC in 2003, Sourav pointedly talked about how India have good openers in himself and Viru and a great middle order with Sachin, Rahul and Yuvraj at 4,5 and 6. And I think, just by watching SAchin's reactions when he is batting in positions he doesn't like, he hates to bat anywhere else. I can understand batsmen wanting to bat in certain positions... Laxman mentions that he loves to bat at 3 in every other interview. But it is the way his body language looks when he is batting somewhere else that concerns me. And I think it can be safely argued that Sachin simply hates batting anywhere but 2 in ODIs and anywhere but 4 in tests. And as I said, sometimes it causes problems in the team. Almost every report during the post WC fiasco was consistent in this aspect, that Sachin was not happy to bat at 4 and that was the reason why he wasn't co-operating more with his skipper, Dravid. You can believe what you want to believe but I think there is some truth in it, even though I still refuse to blame Sachin entirely for this. But I feel that batsmen, no matter how good they are, refusing to bat at other positions except their favorite ones are not exactly what a team needs.


    And one more thing, it has always ALWAYS been fashionable to blast Sachin. He is a crowd favorite and perhaps, the most famous and rich Indian sportsman. People always blast successful guys. But I think guys here at CW would know that I have the utmost respect for Sachin and it is only his faults that I am trying to point out here, which you have alluded to as "blasting", which, I think, with all due respect, is a bit of a reach. If you notice the post, I was just trying to point out the faults with almost each player in the side.


    Lastly, while blasting Sachin has been fashionable, the thing that has been even more fashionable has the passionate responses of his fans, always claiming that "he is being unfairly criticized/blamed" everytime one dares to even say as much as "I think Sachin could have done better". It is not so much in CW, but trust me, in India, u say one bad thing about Sachin, u will be lucky if u don't get punched across your face by some fan of his on your way home.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    Cricinfo came up with this article lashing on Tendulkar. WTF. Give the man a break! The opponents were Bangladesh but he did not exactly perform poorly.

    season 2007 2 3 1 254 122* 101 31 127.00 2 0 0

    I found two other extremely unwarranted comments in two threads on cw. Honestbharani makes this post:

    For starters, we have someone like Sachin, who, for some reason or the other, is wildly protective of his spot in the batting order.....


    Erm, he likes batting at a particular batting position but who doesn't? Every batsman has his favorite position. But you easily forget that he has been batting at number 4 because Dravid and Chappell wanted him to. He did it in the last 2 ODI series in the World Cup and versus Windies despite being successful opening the batting in ODIs before that in the near past because the team management wanted it. It made no sense for sending him down but he did it.

    Another over reaction, this time by Bouncer:

    Good news (that Ford didn't become coach of India) because not another Coach going to get his effigies burnt on streets of Calcutta after he asks Sachin to have an extended net session to figure out why he keeps on getting bowled or LBW or having Coach Talk someone who likes to be known and treated as Prince.

    Blasting Tendulkar is just the fashionable thing to do it seems.
    He's one of the easiest targets at the moment. I mean, he deserves some criticism, particularly, as hbh says, over his perhaps-slightly-OTT insistence on opening the batting in ODIs. But undoubtedly some of the criticism is unwarranted.

  9. #9
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    Ok, first of all, his series against RSA in RSA as far as ODIs go, was not successful at all. It is not just that he didn't make runs, he looked woeful at the crease, something he didn't during the test series, when it looked as though Sachin was regaining his form and touch.
    He had been performing before that series for a while and one series didn't warrant dropping him down the order. The 12 month preceding the series, his stats were as follows:

    filtered 15 15 2 569 141* 100 95 43.76 2 2 1

    Jono has written several times regarding the one day cricket aspect of Tendulkar.

    Secondly, Sachin is wildly protective of his spot in the batting order. Before the team left for the WC in 2003, Sourav pointedly talked about how India have good openers in himself and Viru and a great middle order with Sachin, Rahul and Yuvraj at 4,5 and 6. And I think, just by watching SAchin's reactions when he is batting in positions he doesn't like, he hates to bat anywhere else. I can understand batsmen wanting to bat in certain positions... Laxman mentions that he loves to bat at 3 in every other interview. But it is the way his body language looks when he is batting somewhere else that concerns me. And I think it can be safely argued that Sachin simply hates batting anywhere but 2 in ODIs and anywhere but 4 in tests. And as I said, sometimes it causes problems in the team.
    The past example you mention of Saurav.. Ganguly and Tendulkar joked about it in ESPN's the cricket show during that period you are talking about. They shared excellent working relations The fact that they could joke about the issue while Ganguly was captain showed they were pretty chilled out with each other. In the recent past, he has batted lower when the team management wanted it. So why criticise him on that. Makes no sense.

    Almost every report during the post WC fiasco was consistent in this aspect, that Sachin was not happy to bat at 4 and that was the reason why he wasn't co-operating more with his skipper, Dravid. You can believe what you want to believe but I think there is some truth in it, even though I still refuse to blame Sachin entirely for this. But I feel that batsmen, no matter how good they are, refusing to bat at other positions except their favorite ones are not exactly what a team needs.
    And he didn't refuse to bat at different positions. You and I can believe what we want on speculations as you say, but fact is, he didn't refuse to bat lower.

    And one more thing, it has always ALWAYS been fashionable to blast Sachin. He is a crowd favorite and perhaps, the most famous and rich Indian sportsman. People always blast successful guys. But I think guys here at CW would know that I have the utmost respect for Sachin and it is only his faults that I am trying to point out here, which you have alluded to as "blasting", which, I think, with all due respect, is a bit of a reach. If you notice the post, I was just trying to point out the faults with almost each player in the side.
    My post was not targeting you. I have respect for you and would imagine you have the same for me.

    Lastly, while blasting Sachin has been fashionable, the thing that has been even more fashionable has the passionate responses of his fans, always claiming that "he is being unfairly criticized/blamed" everytime one dares to even say as much as "I think Sachin could have done better". It is not so much in CW, but trust me, in India, u say one bad thing about Sachin, u will be lucky if u don't get punched across your face by some fan of his on your way home.
    I don't think that's true. People are blasting him always among fans and media many times in the extreme and I don't see people getting punched in their faces.
    Last edited by Pratters; 13-06-2007 at 05:09 AM.

  10. #10
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    He had been performing before that series for a while and one series didn't warrant dropping him down the order. The 12 month preceding the series, his stats were as follows:

    filtered 15 15 2 569 141* 100 95 43.76 2 2 1

    Jono has written several times regarding the one day cricket aspect of Tendulkar.

    I agree that he has been doing well before that but honestly, just the way he looked in that series, may have prompted thinking on the part of the team mgmt that maybe Sachin at 4 maybe a better option. Also, we had Sourav returning to the ODI side right after that and it was obvious that with Gambhir in the side, only one of Sachin or Sourav were going to open. And as I have mentioned before, I think in such situations it is better that Sourav opens, simply because while Sourav is not a bad opener, he is not much good in the middle order, esp. in rotating strike and running quickly, things which Sachin can do. In your first post, you mentioned that him batting at 4 doesn't help the team. I beg to differ. In certain situations, it is better for India that Sachin bats at 4. Actually, I would prefer to have him at 3, but then again, for some reason, he doesn't enjoy batting at 3. He prefers 4 if he isn't opening.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    The past example you mention of Saurav.. Ganguly and Tendulkar joked about it in ESPN's the cricket show during that period you are talking about. They shared excellent working relations The fact that they could joke about the issue while Ganguly was captain showed they were pretty chilled out with each other. In the recent past, he has batted lower when the team management wanted it. So why criticise him on that. Makes no sense.

    Just because two people have buried the hatchet regarding a certain issue doesn't make it right. I don't think what Dravid did was right when he declared with Sachin on 194*. Those two joked about it in a program too, but doesn't mean we can't judge if someone was right or not with respect to that incident itself. I still think, even though Sachin performed brilliantly, that India as a whole, might have been better off, not necessarily in the WC (we were runners up, hard to see how we could have done better, given how the Aussies were playing) but in the future. We may have seen a more confident batting unit. As it was, with Kaif batting at 4 and all, that batting order ended up being messed up and it is no secret that Sourav at 3 was nowhere close to the player he was at the top of the order. I am not saying it was a big mistake on the part of Sachin, but I think had he taken the other view, the team could have benefitted more. I am not even criticizing Sachin on this issue. It is on this WC's issue that I find fault with him.... I have mentioned before that had Sachin batted in the middle order (preferably 3), India would have benefitted more and I still stand by that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    And he didn't refuse to bat at different positions. You and I can believe what we want on speculations as you say, but fact is, he didn't refuse to bat lower.
    Ok, I was wrong with the word "refuse", but it was obvious that he didn't like it and it was also obvious that he wasn't trying to hide the fact that he didn't like batting at certain positions. When you are Sachin Tendulkar, even that can set off crazy fans off his. You guys know that Dravid got booed this time in Chennai for making Sachin bat at 4?


    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    My post was not targeting you. I have respect for you and would imagine you have the same for me.
    Not at all. It is because I have the utmost respect for u as a poster that I am trying to debate this point with u. Had I thought of u as another Tendulkar fanatic, I wouldn't even have bothered replying, what with me being at work and all....



    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    I don't think that's true. People are blasting him always among fans and media many times in the extreme and I don't see people getting punched in their faces.

    Well, again, it was an exaggeration, maybe I should have put a smiley in there, but the point is, esp. in Chennai, Sachin fanaticism is HUGE. During the 2004 test against Australia, they just showed his name once on the big screen as the guy who has the best average at the Chennai ground and the crowd went WILD. Esp. in Chennai, Sachin can do no wrong. A line criticizing Sachin in a movie ended up raging fans so much that they cut the screen in the theatre..... My cousins once almost gave up talking to me and almost punched me because I said Sachin should be dropped if he doesn't play in this test series against England.... I may have been wrong, but certainly that suggestion, given his then form (before the BD test series) wasn't so far out from the right, was it?

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    International Vice-Captain Dasa's Avatar
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    Not touching this one with a 10 foot clown pole.


    Seriously though, Pratyush, there was a pretty good discussion of that CricInfo article 'Whither Tendulkar' in the India vs Bangladesh thread I think. I don't have time to find it now, I'll dig it up later.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Pratters's Avatar
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    I will reply point by point without quoting so that we don't end up in a multi quote endless discussion given you are at work and I am also a bit busy.

    The first point.. Whether it was right or not for sending Tendulkar down isn't important. I didn't give my opinion on which number suits him best either. My point mainly is that it isn't right to criticise him about being choosy about batting positions when he has agreed to bat lower down the order.

    Quote Originally Posted by hb
    I am not even criticizing Sachin on this issue. It is on this WC's issue that I find fault with him....
    1. We don't know if/how big tensions Ganguly-Tendulkar had over it as we aren't sitting in the dressing room. 2. I thought it wasn't some thing discuss worthy as well as we were talking of recent batting aspect.

    Second point regarding Chennai fans booing Dravid because Tendulkar batted at 4 - that isn't Tendulkar's fault.

    Third point regarding fans being extremely passionate about Tendulkar - there have always been Tendulkar fanatics but that doesn't mean by large people cannot criticise Tendulkar. Endulkar headlines were written all over the media not that long ago for instance.
    Last edited by Pratters; 13-06-2007 at 06:52 AM.

  13. #13
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    If you screw your gf, it doesn't give you the right to slap her.
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  14. #14
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    I thought Pratyush had that the wrong way around, TBH.

    If you screw your gf it doesn't give her the right to slap you?

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I thought Pratyush had that the wrong way around, TBH.

    If you screw your gf it doesn't give her the right to slap you?
    There is a thing called ****ing which can lead to creation of babies. That is also a meaning of screw.

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