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Has Vaughan become too powerful in the England team?
- Thread starter Piper
- Start date
Piper
International Captain
He is a good captain, I'm not disputing that but what I think was wrong was him automatically being picked when he hadn't even played a Test match for 18 months. I'm sure there are young players in the county game who have consistantly made good scores and aren't getting a look into the national side because Vaughan always has to be there. I think it's unfair on the players who play well but because Vaughan is living off his reputation of 5 years ago, aren't getting picked. Yeah he made a hundred at Headingly but he has occasionally made a good score. I don't think he should be picked for the ''he might make a score this time around''. Let's give someone else who has proven their form ago..
PhoenixFire
International Coach
If anyone deserves to come straight back into the side, it's Vaughan. He was soley responsible in my eyes, for us winning the 2005 Ashes series, and the reason why we lost it 5-0 in '06/'07.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Solely? No. There were a good few reasons why we won in 2005. Vaughan's good captaincy was indeed one of them, but only one.
And similarly, the lack of his captaincy was only one of the reasons we lost so badly in 2006\07. And I honestly think that had he been present for it and everything else been the same we might well have lost by the same margin nonetheless.
And similarly, the lack of his captaincy was only one of the reasons we lost so badly in 2006\07. And I honestly think that had he been present for it and everything else been the same we might well have lost by the same margin nonetheless.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Equally you could say that it's not fair on Vaughan to have his injury terminate his career. Which is why I was so pleased when he did well on his comeback. He'd not have lost his place ITFP but for injury.
PhoenixFire
International Coach
Obviously England lost because Australia were awesome and England were dire, but I can't help but think that Vaughan would have made up some sort of strategy in the 4th or 5th tests that stopped us from getting whitewashed, something that Flintoff wouldn't be capable of doing. Of course, it's all hypothetical, but it could very well have been different.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
cover drive man
International Captain
I dissagree he's a captain and he's not doing that bad.
Piper
International Captain
I know. I'm happy Vaughan is injury free four sure (
) but all I'm saying is maybe they should have waited until he proven his form? Even before his injury he'd only scored the one century for England for a while. I just hope that Vaughany can prove me wrong and regain his form of a few years ago.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
I know. I'm happy Vaughan is injury free four sure (
There were indeed people (tec, for instance) who suggested he should have played a few games before coming back into the Test side. I can sort of see that, but I can also see that not doing so would be "dropping the captain", which opens up a whole new can of worms.
Piper
International Captain
During the 2005 Ashes series, Australia weren't anything like the team they normally are. Plus they had bad decisions go their way (same with England). England were playing well at the same time as Australia weren't. And don't forget, we all nearly had cardiacs on the last day of four of the test matches. Apart from Lord's, you never knew who was gonna win because they were all so close. This years Ashes were a completely different story. Australia were the team that has made them so dominate for so long and England couldn't match that. But I don't think England deserved to loose as heavily as they did. They played better than the white wash suggested. Maybe it would have been different if Vaughan was captain. Maybe it wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference. We'll never know.
Haha sorry
There were indeed people (tec, for instance) who suggested he should have played a few games before coming back into the Test side. I can sort of see that, but I can also see that not doing so would be "dropping the captain", which opens up a whole new can of worms.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
I don't really know if he has or he hasn't, but I could do without him referring to himself in the third person tho. It's either the sign of a ego running mad or that he's taking too much for granted.
Plus it's a bit WWE, isn't it? "The best thing for England is a fit Michael Vaughan. You hear that Sarwan? Michael Vaughan is coming for ya".
Plus it's a bit WWE, isn't it? "The best thing for England is a fit Michael Vaughan. You hear that Sarwan? Michael Vaughan is coming for ya".
Piper
International Captain
I know which one I think it is.. but I think people are wanting to kill me already so I won't say
Anil
Hall of Fame Member
most certainly not...reverse swing from the english quicks, freddie flintoff playing out of his skin, absolute lack of form from the aussie batting lineup barring an innings here and there(and a ponting classic), mcgrath slipping on a cricket ball and missing a couple of tests and then coming back not quite himself, complete letdown from the other aussie bowlers in supporting warne especially during mcgrath's absence....there were so many reasons...and vaughan would not prevented that comprehensive loss in '06-'07 by any stretch of imagination, he is a good captain but he is no magician and the aussies were just too good and too prepared...
cover drive man
International Captain
England haven't really had a good captain since Vaughn. Flintoff was too much of a star player to be a tactical captain and Strauss was good but not great. The same goes for tresco.
sideshowtim
Banned
Vaughan is an okay captain but I don't think he'd be getting the wraps he was getting had England not won the 05 Ashes. I didn't hear any noise about him being a brilliant captain prior to that tournament. The emphasis, rather, was on his batting against the Australians in 2002-03. I think there were larger contributing factors to the 2005 win than Vaughan's captaincy purely, there was also an element of luck involved in it and you have to admit that regardless of which side you support.
He perhaps is too powerful though. He is carrying glory from 2005 still and I feel that has alot to do with him keeping a spot in the One Day International side. What's his record now? 85 games, batting at the top of the order in every single one and not one single century yet? Pretty poor if you ask me.
He perhaps is too powerful though. He is carrying glory from 2005 still and I feel that has alot to do with him keeping a spot in the One Day International side. What's his record now? 85 games, batting at the top of the order in every single one and not one single century yet? Pretty poor if you ask me.
he is trying to be powerful...he did say that the coach and captain of the ashes series should have asked him for help and that he should be allowed into the dressing room etc...but if he is not in the squad...why should he be in the dressing room and amongst the team tactics if he will have no other part in the series? I think he is taking advantage of the fact that he was an ashes winning captain and is asking for more power.....or he may just be stating the fact that he was not allowed in the dressing room and thats it! So ill go for maybe.