Has Vaughan become too powerful in the England team?

[FBU]

Both Fletcher and Vaughan had too much power. People are blaming Fletcher alone. I think Vaughan had even more power than Fletcher as Fletcher thought of himself more of a consultant to the captain. To me it is simple a coach coaches and a captain captains.

I think Vaughan tells the selectors who he wants rather than the other way around. Moores and Fletcher before him didn't go around the counties watching cricket so how could they be part of the selection. I wish Rod Marsh would write a book on his time with the selection committee. One thing he did say though was it took him quite a while to convince Fletcher that Pietersen should be playing international cricket.

I was listening to Nick Knight saying when they get the new Cricket Director Moores should have a say in who it is so that they will be able to work together. I am sure Vaughan will also have his say. How many companies do you have where you can choose your boss? Vaughan did say that before Moores was appointed the ECB spoke to him about the appointment. I have a feeling Vaughan knew that the ECB were trying to get rid of Fletcher. I read that they wanted him to go before the 2005 Ashes but then England went on to win them. Also they didn't want to extend Cooley's contract for an extra two years. That could have had something to do with the ECB not expecting Fletcher to be around.

 

[Richard]

Vaughan is an okay captain but I don't think he'd be getting the wraps he was getting had England not won the 05 Ashes. I didn't hear any noise about him being a brilliant captain prior to that tournament.

You weren't listening then, really. He was acknowledged as a fine captain before it.

He perhaps is too powerful though. He is carrying glory from 2005 still and I feel that has alot to do with him keeping a spot in the One Day International side. What's his record now? 85 games, batting at the top of the order in every single one and not one single century yet? Pretty poor if you ask me.

The Ashes 2005 has nothing to do with ODI cricket.

 

[Richard]

most certainly not...reverse swing from the english quicks, freddie flintoff playing out of his skin, absolute lack of form from the aussie batting lineup barring an innings here and there(and a ponting classic), mcgrath slipping on a cricket ball and missing a couple of tests and then coming back not quite himself, complete letdown from the other aussie bowlers in supporting warne especially during mcgrath's absence....there were so many reasons...and vaughan would not prevented that comprehensive loss in '06-'07 by any stretch of imagination, he is a good captain but he is no magician and the aussies were just too good and too prepared...

Hope PF has already rowed back a bit on that...

You could probably go on for pages on the reasons England won that series.

 

[marc71178]

Vaughan is an okay captain but I don't think he'd be getting the wraps he was getting had England not won the 05 Ashes. I didn't hear any noise about him being a brilliant captain prior to that tournament.

You obviously didn't pay much attention then.

 

[GIMH]

I don't really know if he has or he hasn't, but I could do without him referring to himself in the third person tho. It's either the sign of a ego running mad or that he's taking too much for granted.

Plus it's a bit WWE, isn't it? "The best thing for England is a fit Michael Vaughan. You hear that Sarwan? Michael Vaughan is coming for ya".

Brumby in fine comedic form of late

 

[Richard]

Of late?

 

[Sanz]

Vaughan has been let loose, it does seem that he has become too powerful (sorta Ganguly under Dalmiya). Or it is a plain case of strike the hammer when the iron is hot.

First he criticizes Freddie for his captaincy during Ashes and now he is blaming him for the World Cup debacle. Just SHUT UP and take some responsibility for your failure.

 

[shortpitched713]

Plus it's a bit WWE, isn't it? "The best thing for England is a fit Michael Vaughan. You hear that Sarwan? Michael Vaughan is coming for ya".

Haha. Best mental image. "Can you smell what the Vaughan is cooking?"

 

[Flem274*]

It would be a good idea if the players just moved on from the WC, Vaughan shut up and cocentrate on the destruction of the West Indies. When England play us next summer though they have full permission to self destruct.

 

[Perm]

Haha. Best mental image. "Can you smell what the Vaughan is cooking?"

He probably has the same amount of acting ability as Dwayne as well.

 

[Poker Boy]

I don't know about too powerful, but he has been opening his mouth too much lately. He said he wasn't consultated during the last Ashes - the other view is that he shouldn't have been in the country anyway as he was a distraction and as he wasn't playing why should he be consulted? And as for blaming "Fredalo" for the WC failure I don't know if he remembers but we were crap against NZ BEFORE Freddie's performance. I suggests he lets his bat do the talking from now on. And as for the 2005 Ashes you could say the main reason we won is that Hoggard could hit a full toss for 4 and Brett Lee couldn't (remember Edgbaston and Trent Bridge)

 

[Richard]

Or you could say it was the fact that we dominated most of the last 4 Tests...

That Hoggard shot is overrated, anyway. We had it won before that. That Lee one really did decide the match and I nearly have a coronary every time I re-watch it.

 

[Burgey]

Or you could say it was the fact that we dominated most of the last 4 Tests...

That Hoggard shot is overrated, anyway. We had it won before that. That Lee one really did decide the match and I nearly have a coronary every time I re-watch it.

One of the saddest moments in cricket history was when Lee crunched that full toss to the typically negatively-placed fielder on the deep point boundary, just after the bowler had probably come back from a drink and a towel down after bowling three overs and needing a spell and some instructions on what part of the pitch to land the ball.

Was sitting at home watching and when he hit it, I full-on leapt so high that my beer literally hit the roof, then splashed down on my head, dampening the moment somewhat, but not as much as what happened a few balls later when Kasper was incorrectly (in keeping with the general umpiring standard in the series) given out caught behind off the standard Harmison down-the-leg-side-rubbish ball.

mumble mumble.... something about mints... mumble mumble.... something about sub fielders being on every 4 overs.... mumble mumble..... something about 4 dodgy lbws to Martyn... mumble mumble..... something about Simon Jones being lbw to Lee to a full toss hitting back pad 4 inches high in front of middle and being given not out before he & Flintoff put on 40 odd.... mumble mumble.... if McGrath doesn't roll his ankle we win 4-0... mumble mumble..... why didn't they pick McGill when 9 of the English line up can't hit leg spin off the square?... mumble mumble... where the hell was Stuart Clark?.... mumble mumble..... why send them in on a flat deck?... mumble mumble.... even Ian Bell scored runs.... mumble mumble.... even Ashley Giles got some wickets.... mumble mumble....something abut MBEs.... mumble mumble..... done nothing since ..... mumble mumble.... still living off one good series every 20 years before returning to normal service.... muble mumble..... etc etc.

Yep. Didn't affect me at all really.

 

[Richard]

I often find myself thinking "wouldn't it have been so much better if Kasprowicz had been given lbw when he was absolutely stone-dead 1st ball?"

And "wouldn't it have been great if they'd picked MacGill instead of Tait so we could have smacked him around like we did in 2002\03" too.

And "thank God Stuart Clark wasn't a bowler of particular note back then, otherwise we'd have been for it".