Chappell-Hadlee set for December

[Perm]

FFS.

He has a fair point but I can understand where you are coming from.

 

[Flem274*]

Kieran, dude, don't take this the wrong way, but... go easy on the :laugh:s yeah? Can't remember the last time a post of yours didn't contain one, and sometimes several. Not everything needs to be laughed at.

And I've no doubt you're neither braindead nor a troll.

I beleive I have had posts without laughs thhank you very much. I'd post links if I knew how..

*resists urge to laugh*

FFS Richard, you're making me want to put in a luagh smiley now.

 

[Perm]

FFS Richard, you're making me want to put in a luagh smiley now.

Do it just to spite him IMO

 

[Flem274*]

That's a fair point but I genuinely beleive that the CB series was a fluke for Oram. I can't see him having that level of ferocious hitting on a consistent basis for more than 1 or 2 innings at a time.

Actualy neither do I. I think I posted somewhere else that McCullum or Franklin would be a better batsman technically to have at 6. Thats another debate in the contract thread I think it was though. Anyway IMO Oram's possie is 7 or 8.

 

[Richard]

I beleive I have had posts without laughs thhank you very much. I'd post links if I knew how..

Like this.

 

[Craig]

Shocking spelling from Flem, no matter how ironic it looks from my corner

 

[Flem274*]

Shocking spelling from Flem, no matter how ironic it looks from my corner

Damn you, this is where I would usualy put a laugh smiley.

 

[Fiery]

Damn you, this is where I would usualy put a laugh smiley.

usually

 

[Flem274*]

usually

Anyway to get some conversation about the series I'd like to post a NZ team. Not a final choice team but one to spark some debate.

1. Lou Vincent

This guy is brilliant in aussie and could well be the matchwinner for us. Not consistent but every 3 innings or so, just like Jayasuria, Gilchrist etc. BOOM he destroys any attack.

2. Michael Papps

Now we know Lou isn't consistent so we need a mr consistent up the top. Papps is more than capable of that. He can survive the new ball and set the team up for a big score.

3. Peter Fulton

Now everyone's going to say "where's Taylor?" IMO Fulton is a better first drop because Taylor is less consistent. Fulton is reliable and rock solid and with a top order with an off or on player like Vincent in it, the last thing we need is another one. Two quick wickets down is not the way to make runs. Fulton is a far better player than the media especially give him credit for. IMO if Fulton carries on the way he is currently he could be one of our best ODI players ever.

4. Scott Styris

Until recently I would have had Fleming here, but now I feel that he should and intends to leave ODI's. Styris isn't the best player on quick pitches but I feel he can develop and adapt to the quick aussie pitches. If he doesn't then I propose either Fleming or Sinclair to take over this extremely important position.

5. Ross Taylor

This is the man everyone expects big things from. Going through a form slump ATM so at five he can sort himself out and hopefully find some consistency. Five is an important place and you want a good player here so Taylor slots in nicely.

6. David Houpapa

I'm picking this bloke to be an awesome finisher in international cricket. Much better technically than Oram and IIRC can play spin so in my mind a much better number six option.

7. Brendan McCullum

Will become a world class player in the future no doubt. reat finisher and should work well with Houpapa.

8. Jacob Oram

More of a bowler than a batsman in ODI's IMO. At 8 he can do the job that Franklin does currently which is quick runs at the end. His excellent accurate bowling make him a perfect first change bowler and maybe could even become an opening bowler. McGrath shows line and length gets the job done and I'm not saying this guy could be of the calibre of McGrath but his line and length is an option.

9. Daniel Vettori

Was very very tempted to write Patel's name down here but Vettori's record and experience get him through.

10. Kyle Mills

Easily our second best ODI seamer behind Bond, obvious selection really.

11. Tim Southee/ Te Ahu Davis/ new promising seamer

Now you're all asking "where is Shane Bond?" Well fact is we don't know when he's gonna leave so if we wanna win this WC we better develop someone new ASAP. Bond can be saved for tests but he won't be around next WC most likely. We could suffer in the short term but in the long term it should pay off.

 

[Fiery]

Anyway to get some conversation about the series I'd like to post a NZ team. Not a final choice team but one to spark some debate.

1. Lou Vincent

This guy is brilliant in aussie and could well be the matchwinner for us. Not consistent but every 3 innings or so, just like Jayasuria, Gilchrist etc. BOOM he destroys any attack.

2. Michael Papps

Now we know Lou isn't consistent so we need a mr consistent up the top. Papps is more than capable of that. He can survive the new ball and set the team up for a big score.

3. Peter Fulton

Now everyone's going to say "where's Taylor?" IMO Fulton is a better first drop because Taylor is less consistent. Fulton is reliable and rock solid and with a top order with an off or on player like Vincent in it, the last thing we need is another one. Two quick wickets down is not the way to make runs. Fulton is a far better player than the media especially give him credit for. IMO if Fulton carries on the way he is currently he could be one of our best ODI players ever.

4. Scott Styris

Until recently I would have had Fleming here, but now I feel that he should and intends to leave ODI's. Styris isn't the best player on quick pitches but I feel he can develop and adapt to the quick aussie pitches. If he doesn't then I propose either Fleming or Sinclair to take over this extremely important position.

5. Ross Taylor

This is the man everyone expects big things from. Going through a form slump ATM so at five he can sort himself out and hopefully find some consistency. Five is an important place and you want a good player here so Taylor slots in nicely.

6. David Houpapa

I'm picking this bloke to be an awesome finisher in international cricket. Much better technically than Oram and IIRC can play spin so in my mind a much better number six option.

7. Brendan McCullum

Will become a world class player in the future no doubt. reat finisher and should work well with Houpapa.

8. Jacob Oram

More of a bowler than a batsman in ODI's IMO. At 8 he can do the job that Franklin does currently which is quick runs at the end. His excellent accurate bowling make him a perfect first change bowler and maybe could even become an opening bowler. McGrath shows line and length gets the job done and I'm not saying this guy could be of the calibre of McGrath but his line and length is an option.

9. Daniel Vettori

Was very very tempted to write Patel's name down here but Vettori's record and experience get him through.

10. Kyle Mills

Easily our second best ODI seamer behind Bond, obvious selection really.

11. Tim Southee/ Te Ahu Davis/ new promising seamer

Now you're all asking "where is Shane Bond?" Well fact is we don't know when he's gonna leave so if we wanna win this WC we better develop someone new ASAP. Bond can be saved for tests but he won't be around next WC most likely. We could suffer in the short term but in the long term it should pay off.

No Flem? Does this mean you might need to change your User name? I'd have Flem for Papps and Bond for "Tim Southee/ Te Ahu Davis/ new promising seamer". Need to use Bond as much as we can before he breaks down or decides to call it a day

 

[Flem274*]

No Flem? Does this mean you might need to change your User name? I'd have Flem for Papps and Bond for "Tim Southee/ Te Ahu Davis/ new promising seamer". Need to use Bond as much as we can before he breaks down or decides to call it a day

No, I would never change my username.

Fleming opening? Oh no oh no oh no. His spot is four. If Styris fails, (or any other middle order man for that matter) Then Fleming is in.

We have to stop relying on Bond IMO. What happens if he breaks down right before the WC? We need to plan ahead. Aussie dropped Bevan in preparation for the recent WC because they knew he wouldn't be around IIRC. Hurt in the short term but is having long term benefits.

 

[Fiery]

No, I would never change my username.

Fleming opening? Oh no oh no oh no. His spot is four. If Styris fails, (or any other middle order man for that matter) Then Fleming is in.

We have to stop relying on Bond IMO. What happens if he breaks down right before the WC? We need to plan ahead. Aussie dropped Bevan in preparation for the recent WC because they knew he wouldn't be around IIRC. Hurt in the short term but is having long term benefits.

? Flem's opening record in ODIs isn't too bad...better than his overall record actually. Can't see Bond making it through to the next WC anyway but would like him to be there to win us a few games in the next few years. Would be silly to place that much importance on the WC imo. We see the same thing happening in rugby, although I can understand that more seeing as we should have won the last 4 and haven't.

 

[Flem274*]

? Flem's opening record in ODIs isn't too bad. Can't see Bond making it through to the next WC anyway but would like him to be there to win us a few games up in the next few years. Would be silly to place that much importance on the WC imo. We see the same thing happening in rugby, although I can understand that more seeing as we should have won the last 4 and didn't.

Fleming is a number four. Fulton doesn't have a bad record opening in ODI's either but he isn't an opener.


Can't find his average by position but I'm willing to bet his average at three and four is alot better than his opening average.

His average per year shows that of the years I can recall him at three or four, this is the record.

1994; 21.8
1995; 36.7
1996; 37.3
1997; 24.9
1998; 42.4
1999; 20.0
2000; 30.4
2001; 28.6
2002; 29.7
2003; 34.0

Compared with opening

2004; 48.5
2005; 22.4
2006; 35.5
2007; 33.5

Actualy it's closer than I thought, however apart from 2004 nothing outstanding. Also noting that Fleming hit his best form 2003-2004.

 

[Fiery]

Fleming is a number four. Fulton doesn't have a bad record opening in ODI's either but he isn't an opener.


Can't find his average by position but I'm willing to bet his average at three and four is alot better than his opening average.

His average per year shows that of the years I can recall him at three or four, this is the record.

1994; 21.8
1995; 36.7
1996; 37.3
1997; 24.9
1998; 42.4
1999; 20.0
2000; 30.4
2001; 28.6
2002; 29.7
2003; 34.0

Compared with opening

2004; 48.5
2005; 22.4
2006; 35.5
2007; 33.5

Actualy it's closer than I thought, however apart from 2004 nothing outstanding. Also noting that Fleming hit his best form 2003-2004.

Papps is not a OD player but would make me test side. Flem's record by position below:
(His record opening or 3 is better than 4)

Opening 103 103 6 3280 134* 115* 108 33.81 5 19 12
3rd position 66 66 4 2118 96 85 85 34.16 0 18 2
4th position 82 82 10 2365 116* 111* 106* 32.84 3 11 3
5th position 15 15 1 222 56 33* 19 15.85 0 1 0
6th position 2 2 0 22 18 4 - 11.00 0 0 0
7th position 1 1 0 30 30 - - 30.00 0 0 0

 

[Flem274*]

Papps is not a OD player but would make me test side. Flem's record by position below:
(His record opening or 3 is better than 4)

Opening 103 103 6 3280 134* 115* 108 33.81 5 19 12
3rd position 66 66 4 2118 96 85 85 34.16 0 18 2
4th position 82 82 10 2365 116* 111* 106* 32.84 3 11 3
5th position 15 15 1 222 56 33* 19 15.85 0 1 0
6th position 2 2 0 22 18 4 - 11.00 0 0 0
7th position 1 1 0 30 30 - - 30.00 0 0 0

Thanks for that.

Fleming's been a number four all through his formative years so that position or three is most natural to him. He is a manufactured opener and they usually have one glaring weakness. Vulnerability to the outswinging ball. Fleming has that weakness. At four I beleive he would become more consistent and and be more of an asset to the team. You're fully entitled to think of him as an opener though because for a manufactured opener he has done exceedingly well. I'd just prefer a speciallist. Also I'd swap Styris for Fleming in that team I listed.

 

[Perm]

The talk of having David Houpapa and Tim Southee/ Te Ahu Davis in the side is a load of rubbish. Houpapa hasn't even played 10 List A games for Auckland and I think the same lack of experience would count against the other two names you mentioned. We are still 6 months away from this series, so to discuss teams now is just ludicrous because so much can happen between now and then.

 

[Flem274*]

The talk of having David Houpapa and Tim Southee/ Te Ahu Davis in the side is a load of rubbish. Houpapa hasn't even played 10 List A games for Auckland and I think the same lack of experience would count against the other two names you mentioned. We are still 6 months away from this series, so to discuss teams now is just ludicrous because so much can happen between now and then.

I don't see the harm in talking about teams and tossing some names out. What would you rather talk about?

 

[Perm]

I don't see the harm in talking about teams and tossing some names out. What would you rather talk about?

Maybe a little closer to time, but 6 months out? The Black Caps have plenty of cricket between now and then to decided who will be in our starting XI. My main irritation was the fact that David Houpapa (as highly as I rate him), Tim Southee and Te Ahu Davis were even mentioned as being close to the New Zealand team in your opinion.

 

[Flem274*]

Maybe a little closer to time, but 6 months out? The Black Caps have plenty of cricket between now and then to decided who will be in our starting XI. My main irritation was the fact that David Houpapa (as highly as I rate him), Tim Southee and Te Ahu Davis were even mentioned as being close to the New Zealand team in your opinion.

Not close to making the team, just names I threw out to spark some debate. Worked too....

 

[Fiery]

Maybe a little closer to time, but 6 months out? The Black Caps have plenty of cricket between now and then to decided who will be in our starting XI. My main irritation was the fact that David Houpapa (as highly as I rate him), Tim Southee and Te Ahu Davis were even mentioned as being close to the New Zealand team in your opinion.

I think dismissing Flem's selection as "a load of rubbish" was a bit harsh tbf Perm.