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Does anybody dispute this about Bill O'Rielly?

Francis

State Vice-Captain
Originally I was going to ask, does anybody dispute that Bill O'Rielly is the third best spinner ever since I think most people would have Warne and Murali (in any order) as the top two best spinners ever. But there's one or two people here who think O'Rielly is one of the ten best cricketers ever, and arguably the best bowler ever... so my question to you is...

Does anybody here dispute that (in any order) Warne, Murali and O'Rielly are the three best spinners ever?

My answer is no, I can't dispute that. Enough has been said of Warne and Murali, but O'Rielly was incredible as well. The best testimony for O'Rielly is look as when England made that mammoth score (800 or 900 something) and all the bowlers went for 6 runs an over, except O'Rielly, who just couldn't be put away for more than three an over.

I think his closest competition is Grimmett, who is a legend in his own right (invented the flipper), and once bamboozled Don Bradman in one match. Jim Laker is another who deserves close attention, but I just don't quite see a case for him. If I was ranking the third, fourth and fifth best spinners ever I'd go...

3. O'Rielly
4. Grimmett
5. Laker
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Laker is totally incomperable to wristspinners. As are the other great English fingerspinners of old (mostly left-armers) Rhodes, Verity, Lock and Underwood (pre-covered pitches).

Me, I'd say it's not really possible to say for certain who was best out of Warne, O'Reilly and Grimmett. Or Murali, for that matter, but he's one of a kind.

Certainly, I've always said it's fruitless trying to say Warne or Murali is better... and usually ends-up in race-related arguments too. 8-)
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Not sure TBH, Qadir may have a fair case too.
Hahaha, no.

As Kamran Abbassi said a while ago, Qadir had plenty of disadvantages and might have been better with less of them. But I don't agree that he was in the very top echleon - just a "might have been".
 

Xuhaib

International Coach
Hahaha, no.

As Kamran Abbassi said a while ago, Qadir had plenty of disadvantages and might have been better with less of them. But I don't agree that he was in the very top echleon - just a "might have been".
According to Steve Waugh when his mind was switched on he was as good as Warney but the pity was that due to his loose cannon personality that did not happen often.
 

Swervy

International Captain
Hahaha, no.

As Kamran Abbassi said a while ago, Qadir had plenty of disadvantages and might have been better with less of them. But I don't agree that he was in the very top echleon - just a "might have been".
I think a hell of a lot of people who saw Qadir bowl would put him very high up. He is probably the second best leggy I have ever seen, and I cant really think of any that could be better in the last say 35/40 years. So maybe not quite up there with Warne, who was once in a lifetime, but not too far.
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
I'm curious to see if anybody says Kumble should be in the top three. I don't think he's close, but Sachin Tendulkar has talked of him in the same sentence as Warne and Murali before.

Certainly, I've always said it's fruitless trying to say Warne or Murali is better... and usually ends-up in race-related arguments too.
This isn't a Warne v. Murali debate. It's more of a "Is Bill O'Rielly the third best spinner, or one of the three best spinners, ever?" thread.
 

PhoenixFire

International Coach
Obviously I never saw him play so I can't pass much judgement, but from what I've seen, I'd probably put someone like Underwood in there.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
This isn't a Warne v. Murali debate. It's more of a "Is Bill O'Rielly the third best spinner, or one of the three best spinners, ever?" thread.
The Warne-Murali case relates to it, though - it's possible to argue that O'Reilly, like those two, cannot really be said with certainty to have been better or not.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I think a hell of a lot of people who saw Qadir bowl would put him very high up. He is probably the second best leggy I have ever seen, and I cant really think of any that could be better in the last say 35/40 years. So maybe not quite up there with Warne, who was once in a lifetime, but not too far.
The point is, though, he might have been better but for the fact that, being Pakistani, he almost-inevitably had a turbulent career.

Had he had less turbulence (say, had he been Indian rather than Pakistani) he might, you never know, have been as good as anyone. But it's not possible to say for certain.

As things were, he was nothing more than someone who sometimes excelled at home, and was near hopeless away.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I'm curious to see if anybody says Kumble should be in the top three. I don't think he's close, but Sachin Tendulkar has talked of him in the same sentence as Warne and Murali before.
Kumble's a totally different bowler - a bowler of a style that never has the chance of putting you in the Warne\Murali\O'Reilly class, but Kumble is undoubtedly one of the best at bowling the style he purveys.
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
Grimmett was better. O'Reilly (for reasons mostly outside his control) didn't get enough of a chance to make as big of an impression at Test level.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Grimmett was better. O'Reilly (for reasons mostly outside his control) didn't get enough of a chance to make as big of an impression at Test level.
:blink:

O'Reilly took 144 Test wickets. Given the amount of cricket played back then, that's a fair amount of an impression.
 

Swervy

International Captain
The point is, though, he might have been better but for the fact that, being Pakistani, he almost-inevitably had a turbulent career.

Had he had less turbulence (say, had he been Indian rather than Pakistani) he might, you never know, have been as good as anyone. But it's not possible to say for certain.

As things were, he was nothing more than someone who sometimes excelled at home, and was near hopeless away.
just as you make some vaild points you have to go and ruin it by coming out with rubbish like '(Qadir) was near hopeless away'

You look at his away average, and yes, doesnt look too good, but towards the mid to late 80s, thats when I felt he was at his best, and he performed well both home and away. Maybe you never really got to see him really turn it on....even IN England
 

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