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Thread: Michael Vaughan is awesome

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by R_D View Post
    I don'r get it. Why would you want Collingwood to go, hasn't he been the most consistent English batsman in past year or so. If anyone its Strauss who's been pretty medicore throughout. Collingwood may not have the all-round strokes but he makes for with his dtermination and will to fight. He's not pretty to watch but one of the few english batsman that are likeable really.

    It's Richardism #30852498492. Collingwood can continue to be consistently one of England's better batsman, chip in with overs, be a miles better fielder than most others but it won't make an iota of difference to Richard, because his snap judgement a while ago is obviously faultless and so unquestionable.
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  2. #32
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Mister Wright's Avatar
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    Ahhh...Vaughan is my favourite batsman in the world to watch when on-song. Good to see him back, hopefully he can continue it and I get to see a few more big innings from him. If Fox will show them, of course.
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  3. #33
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    To be frank, England is better off with a player like Ravi Bopara than M. Vaughan. At first he's so injury-prone and second he's pretty inconsistant. He should take retirement.
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  4. #34
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Since 1 January 2006:

    Strauss M-16 R-1141 HS-128 AVG-38.03 100s-3 50s-3
    Collingwood M-16 R-1310 HS-206 AVG-50.38 100s-4 50s-2
    Bell M-13 R- 949 HS- 119 AVG-45.19 100s- 4 50s-5

    England have played against one really good attack in that time, Australia - where Collingwood averaged 48 and Strauss averaged 24, and Bell 33.
    Last edited by Matt79; 25-05-2007 at 09:36 PM.
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  5. #35
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Collingwood looks pretty dire when he's out there most of the time, which creates the illusion of him being a poor player. Even a good judge like Richard who usually doesn't fall into such traps is fooled it seems. I don't see why Collingwood's place comes under question when you consider how badly Strauss has been going in the past few series, really. Bell has the potential to be world class so I can see why he's ahead of him despite poor numbers, but Strauss - as much as I don't think he's as useless as quite a few people seem to - certainly should not be ahead of Collingwood in the pecking order at this stage.
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  6. #36
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    As I said in the official thread, he's a champion. It wasn't the best knock ever, probably not even in the series, the attack was weak but that doesn't change the fact that he went out there, overcame a whole heap of adversity and got a Test match century when everyone was expecting him to fail. It's these intangibles that make the sport so great and is something statistics can never ever begin to represent and describe, let alone do justice to the magnitude of a feat or career.
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  7. #37
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    I have to lend my voice to those backing Collingwood. He's not the prettiest of batsmen but he's easily done enough to warrant his place in the team, and his attitude always seems to be top notch as well.

    My idea of the pecking order for the batting lineup currently would be as follows:

    Pietersen
    Cook
    Vaughan
    Collingwood
    Bell
    Strauss

    When Trescothick is ready to come back in, he has to slot in for Strauss for my money, and if Joyce, Shah or any of the other viable batting prospects start milking runs at county level, Bell will need to be on top of his game to keep his place.

  8. #38
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    As the name of thread says, Michael Vaughan is awesome.
    I hope that he can go for a good year or so without injury problems and see if he can regain the for he once had. Watching him and the rest of England win the ashes a few years ago got me into the sport.
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  9. #39
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
    I suspect you started this thread as a reaction to Boy Bamber's thread Rich. If not, then I think you're getting a bit carried away with your opening post tbh
    I doubt I'd have posted that but for Bob Bamber's thread, but no, I'd have felt what I said in it regardless.
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  10. #40
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    Even if Vaughan continues to fill his boots his problem will be when he comes up against genuine pace - last time that happened he kept getting bowled by a fairly average Test bowler.
    He actually kept getting bowled by several bowlers, only one of whom was especially quick and that pace was not what was causing the problems...
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  11. #41
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_D View Post
    I don'r get it. Why would you want Collingwood to go, hasn't he been the most consistent English batsman in past year or so. If anyone its Strauss who's been pretty medicore throughout. Collingwood may not have the all-round strokes but he makes for with his dtermination and will to fight. He's not pretty to watch but one of the few english batsman that are likeable really.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    tbf, Collingwood > Strauss on everything since 2005. And (a fit) Tresco-Cook-Vaughan-Pietersen-Collingwood-Bell is better than Strauss-Tresco-Cook-Vaughan-Pietersen-Bell.

    Collingwood is also > Bell atm...
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    Since 1 January 2006:

    Strauss M-16 R-1141 HS-128 AVG-38.03 100s-3 50s-3
    Collingwood M-16 R-1310 HS-206 AVG-50.38 100s-4 50s-2
    Bell M-13 R- 949 HS- 119 AVG-45.19 100s- 4 50s-5

    England have played against one really good attack in that time, Australia - where Collingwood averaged 48 and Strauss averaged 24, and Bell 33.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Collingwood looks pretty dire when he's out there most of the time, which creates the illusion of him being a poor player. Even a good judge like Richard who usually doesn't fall into such traps is fooled it seems. I don't see why Collingwood's place comes under question when you consider how badly Strauss has been going in the past few series, really. Bell has the potential to be world class so I can see why he's ahead of him despite poor numbers, but Strauss - as much as I don't think he's as useless as quite a few people seem to - certainly should not be ahead of Collingwood in the pecking order at this stage.
    There's no way on Earth Strauss is ahead of Collingwood in the pecking-order at the moment. I've never suggested that at all.

    What I have suggested is that Strauss is a better batsman than Collingwood, and to suggest otherwise is IMO ludicrous. And to suggest he's better than Bell is beyond ludicrous.

    Collingwood has had a good deal of ridiculously lucky innings in the last year, never more so than those at Lord's against Pakistan and West Indies. He has also played some good knocks, most obviously that Adelaide double-century. But he certainly didn't have as good an Ashes as Bell, and probably not even as good as Strauss.

    In his last 28 innings (3 n\os) he's made just 3 chanceless half-centuries, and one century, that Adelaide double.

    Simple fact is, he's made some very lucky big scores, one superb large score, and done not-much plenty of times. That is not the mark of a particularly good batsman.

    Undoubtedly, though, I'll say it again - if Trescothick were to return for the next Test it'd be Strauss, not Collingwood, who'd have to go.
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  12. #42
    International Captain cover drive man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I said it several times in the official tour thread, and I tried to convey it without too much going OTT in my day's report, but I've not felt happier about a single player's achievement for a long time. Last time was probably Alec Stewart and that century at Old Trafford on the Saturday in 2002.

    It's wonderful not only to see a sportsman conquer an injury which, not once but two or three times, has seemed like it might end his career, but to confound so many doubters from so many angles. I know beyond question that there were quite a few Englishmen (and others, though it's not quite so poor there) who were hoping Vaughan would fail today because they thought his being brought back for this Test sent out bad messages. That refers to people on this forum and elsewhere. Shame on them, TBH. It's far, far better for England that Vaughan comes back, stays fit and re-establishes himself as a class batsman than if he disappears without trace, and far, far fairer on the man, too. No-one deserves to have their career finished by injury, we've seen it happen to Andy Caddick and Craig White in the not-terribly-distant past. I find it wonderful to see it having not happened here.

    My only slight disappointment is that Duncan Fletcher was no longer there to share the moment.
    He's a fantastic player when he is on form. In fact when he is on form he is one of the greatest batters in the world in my opinion but he's not always on form and he is injury prone.
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  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Collingwood has had a good deal of ridiculously lucky innings in the last year, never more so than those at Lord's against Pakistan and West Indies. He has also played some good knocks, most obviously that Adelaide double-century. But he certainly didn't have as good an Ashes as Bell, and probably not even as good as Strauss.

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  14. #44
    International Captain Piper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PY View Post
    I'm very happy for the man in his achievement and it was great to watch.

    I don't feel that the journey back to 2002 is complete yet though, the attack was pretty average for large chunks of today but it was exactly what he needed after what he's had to go through to get there.

    I just hope he can carry on from here and nail India consistently and take his form on tour.
    Im happy for him for sure. But I don't think we can celebrate his ''return'' yet. It is after all only one innings.
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  15. #45
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    Richard has a point about chanceless runs and all that stuff, however runs are runs and if you have a player with a bit of luck then is'nt that even better?
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