Should Pietersen bat at 3 for England?

[pskov]

I was having a debate with one of my friends who says that KP should be told to move up to 3 in Tests. The logic being that number three is where you bat your best player, as every other team does (Dravid, Ponting, Kallis etc. all bat at 3 in tests).

I argued that KP is slightly different to those players, except Ponting when he is in the mood, in that he is someone who can unleash on an attack and take the game away from a side in one session. I think it is better that he can come in at 2 down with a platform of sorts so he can play more freely and use his attacking talents to his best advantage. If he was tome come in first drop I think he would feel more constrained by the situation, thus not play to his strengths and not do as well as he should.

FWIW, I would rather see Bell at 3 and seeing as Vaughan seems set to be picked regardless if he is fit I'd bat Vaughan at 5 and Collingwood at 6.

 

[Richard]

The "number three is where you bat your best player" is nought but generalised nonsense, and certainly not true in any number of cases:

Dravid - there was a time, a lengthy one, where he batted three ahead of the much superior Tendulkar. Only in the last 4 years has Dravid become the better player. Kallis hasn't batted three in Tests for yonks (indeed, probably since about the time he succeeded Daryll Cullinan as South Africa's best - guess where he usually batted now...), and Ponting was preceded at three by Langer. Stephen Waugh, who was better than either of those will ever be, made a career at five and six. Allan Border, possibly better still, did likewise. Inzamam-ul-Haq, almost undoubtedly Pakistan's best batsman of the last decade, rarely if ever batted there. Aravinda de Silva, Sri Lanka's finest, was a four specialist; the only challengers to his place (Sangakkara and Jayawardene) have never had a nailed-down spot. Brian Lara was not a regular number-three, and batted four for much of his career.

Purely and simply, you bat your best player in his best position. For Pietersen, that may be five, it may be four. He seems to prefer five, so I'd be happiest with him there.

 

[Woodster]

Personally I would like him at 4, there is no great technical reason for this, just more a hunch. Think 5 is too low, especially with our at times elongated tail, but 4 I think suits him.

 

[steds]

Personally I would like him at 4, there is no great technical reason for this, just more a hunch. Think 5 is too low, especially with our at times elongated tail, but 4 I think suits him.

Indeed.

 

[wpdavid]

Personally I would like him at 4, there is no great technical reason for this, just more a hunch. Think 5 is too low, especially with our at times elongated tail, but 4 I think suits him.

Sunday's innings was a perfect example of that. He had plenty of time to play himself in before taking the WI attack to bits. I'll settle for that.

 

[Woodster]

Sunday's innings was a perfect example of that. He had plenty of time to play himself in before taking the WI attack to bits. I'll settle for that.

Yes for me, classic Pietersen. Time to look at the pitch, work out his scoring zones against the bowlers and settle in before executing his plans when set (Admittedly he doesn't always need as much time as others to settle into his stride at the crease, but is more effective when he does so).

He is also a very clever player, who knows when the right time is to take the attack on a little more, naturally he is prone to the odd misjudgement, but what can you expect from someone that has still played only 24 Tests!

 

[Richard]

Incidentally, nice to see you posting a bit, Paul.

 

[Woodster]

Incidentally, nice to see you posting a bit, Paul.

Thank you very much, even if there is a hint of sarcasm in there!

Yes, I dont get to join in half as much as I'd like to, but its good to see the range of topics being discussed are as much varied as they are interesting. I've noticed Richard that you still seem to manage to post the odd one or two a day!!

 

[simmy]

Leave him at 4 I say. He is made for the position. Aggressive and full of runs. He has enough time and I like his partnerships with Collingwood and Bell a lot.

 

[Spitfires_Fan]

I think he's best at 4 myself with Collingwood at 5. Our openers are usually pretty good at taking the shine off of the ball, and he is a player with a rare ability to not just take the attack to the bowlers but to completely pulverise them - not necessarily from scoring unduly fast, but he dominates the bowling in a way that I've never seen before.

By the end of the summer, I'd like to see a batting lineup along the lines of:

Trescothick
Cook
Vaughan
Pietersen
Collingwood
Bell

I think Bell will be prolific at 6 for the next few years, and will be the obvious candidate to take over the no.3 spot on a permanent basis once Vaughan retires. Another year or two's experience should stand him in good stead.

So yeah. Pietersen at no.4!

 

[BoyBrumby]

I think he's probably already earned the right to call his position. He'd never say it (publicly at least) but he's clearly our best bat by laps. If he likes #4 then that's cool & the gang with me.

 

[Richard]

I think he's probably already earned the right to call his position. He'd never say it (publicly at least) but he's clearly our best bat by laps. If he likes #4 then that's cool & the gang with me.

I'd like to see him get down on it at five if he prefers that, myself.

 

[Richard]

I think he's best at 4 myself with Collingwood at 5. Our openers are usually pretty good at taking the shine off of the ball, and he is a player with a rare ability to not just take the attack to the bowlers but to completely pulverise them - not necessarily from scoring unduly fast, but he dominates the bowling in a way that I've never seen before.

By the end of the summer, I'd like to see a batting lineup along the lines of:

Trescothick
Cook
Vaughan
Pietersen
Collingwood
Bell

I think Bell will be prolific at 6 for the next few years, and will be the obvious candidate to take over the no.3 spot on a permanent basis once Vaughan retires. Another year or two's experience should stand him in good stead.

So yeah. Pietersen at no.4!

TBH, I'd prefer Strauss opening, Cook three and Vaughan four to Collingwood five.

But Strauss does need to score some runs... and soon.

 

[Burgey]

TBH, I'd prefer Strauss opening, Cook three and Vaughan four to Collingwood five.

But Strauss does need to score some runs... and soon.

Damn amazing to see Strauss now compared to how he was in 05 & 06. Has that Ashes series here done his head in?
Don't mind sayng I thought he'd struggle with the bounce here, but many thought he'd cope well as he's a good square of the wicket player, which he probably still is.
iirc he was in good touch coming into the first test and then got caught pulling twice, got a couple of dodgies, and hasn't really recovered yet. Shades of Martyn in the 05 Ashes series to some extent.
I still think he's England's best opener though, and he should be persisted with. The "will I be skipper or won't I" thing and the injuries to Vaughan and Flintoff, who were both in the mix for the job probably hasn't done his mental state much good either.

 

[Mister Wright]

Pietersen at 4 is the best balance for the England team. Keep him there.

 

[wpdavid]

TBH, I'd prefer Strauss opening, Cook three and Vaughan four to Collingwood five.

Bit harsh on Pietersen mate. I know he gave it away in both innings at Lord's, but even so ...

But Strauss does need to score some runs... and soon.

True. I can't remember if I mentioned it here or elsewhere, but he's averaging mid30's since the tour of SA, which isn't special in this day & age. I think Burgey's points are well made though. Given the way he's been faffed around with the captaincy, I think he's entitled to a bit of leeway for a while yet.

 

[Perm]

I'd have him at #4.

 

[PhoenixFire]

I accidentally put #5, I meant #4.

 

[pasag]

Yeah, I'm a fan of him at 4. Definitely wouldn't mind seeing him at 3 eventually.

 

[Richard]

Bit harsh on Pietersen mate. I know he gave it away in both innings at Lord's, but even so ...

IIRR he prefers the five slot, so it's not too harsh.