Future of fast bowling in India

[PhoenixFire]

May I ask why Gangadeep Singh hasn't played any Test matches? He has a bloody good FC record, and looks to be a more than decent bowler, especially in this time of need for Indian pace bowling.

 

[Manee]

I keep asking this and never getting a straight answer, simply because noone knows.

 

[open365]

Maybe Indian selectors don't get to see the players enough?

Bose has had awesome bowling stats in FC cricket for quite a while, yet the Indian selectors seem to have no confidence in him.

 

[adharcric]

May I ask why Gangadeep Singh hasn't played any Test matches? He has a bloody good FC record, and looks to be a more than decent bowler, especially in this time of need for Indian pace bowling.

Lack of pace? Don't know how Bose made it in that case ...

 

[Manee]

Lack of pace is a very stupid reason, if you are faster than 120kph (which I have heard both Bose and G Singh are), you are fast enough to be a medium pace bowler. If you can succeed as a medium pace bowler in India, surely you can succeed anywhere.

 

[adharcric]

Maybe Indian selectors don't get to see the players enough?

Bose has had awesome bowling stats in FC cricket for quite a while, yet the Indian selectors seem to have no confidence in him.

Until a few years ago, Bose wasn't even the best seamer in Bengal; SS Paul was the man in the spotlight. Bose has hardly been awesome for "quite a while". Once again, Bose lacks pace and his home ground is a greentop (Gagandeep's, as well?). Just trying to think of reasons to explain the Indian selectors' decisions ... sometimes, it just isn't possible.

 

[Perm]

Lack of pace is a very stupid reason, if you are faster than 120kph (which I have heard both Bose and G Singh are), you are fast enough to be a medium pace bowler. If you can succeed as a medium pace bowler in India, surely you can succeed anywhere.

Not against Test class batsmen.

 

[adharcric]

Lack of pace is a very stupid reason, if you are faster than 120kph (which I have heard both Bose and G Singh are), you are fast enough to be a medium pace bowler. If you can succeed as a medium pace bowler in India, surely you can succeed anywhere.

1) Pace does matter. Look at Syed Rasel and Irfan Pathan. Really, Ganguly isn't too far from 120 kph - do we really need another Ganguly leading the attack?
2) Get over the impression that India only has flat tracks and dust bowls. Punjab and Bengal, for example, often prepare seamer-friendly tracks IIRC.
3) Bit of a gap between facing Haryana/Karnataka and a test side. That said, Gagandeep should at least get a shot in the A team - an average of 20 can't mean nothing.

 

[Manee]

Not against Test class batsmen.

Surely he is not outpacing any domestic batsman with his pace, but he is still getting wickets.

2) Get over the impression that India only has flat tracks and dust bowls. Punjab and Bengal, for example, often prepare seamer-friendly tracks IIRC.

I have just started to realise this, but he still has to succeed in away games too to have such good stats.

3) Bit of a gap between facing Haryana/Karnataka and a test side. That said, Gagandeep should at least get a shot in the A team - an average of 20 can't mean nothing.

True

 

[Perm]

Surely he is not outpacing any domestic batsman with his pace, but he is still getting wickets.

I doubt he is outpacing them, but that kind of pace, even with great accuracy and movement, will not allow him to suceed at Test level. You do need to be reasonably quick to survive as a specialist seam bowler in the Test arena otherwise you will find yourself as fodder for good batsmen.

 

[Prince EWS]

I doubt he is outpacing them, but that kind of pace, even with great accuracy and movement, will not allow him to suceed at Test level. You do need to be reasonably quick to survive as a specialist seam bowler in the Test arena otherwise you will find yourself as fodder for good batsmen.

How fast exactly do you think he is? Have you seen him bowl? Anyone who can bowl at 125km/h plus is capable of being a test seamer, providing they tick all the other boxes. Obviously pace helps, but if GS is accurate as hell, gets heaps of movement and is a thinking bowler, he'd do perfectly fine at test level, especially given the standard of some of the other bowlers currently.

 

[Perm]

How fast exactly do you think he is? Have you seen him bowl? Anyone who can bowl at 125km/h plus is capable of being a test seamer, providing they tick all the other boxes. Obviously pace helps, but if GS is accurate as hell, gets heaps of movement and is a thinking bowler, he'd do perfectly fine at test level, especially given the standard of some of the other bowlers currently.

I haven't seen him bowl, no. I can only assume that by the way some people talk about him as being medium pace is that he will be in the low-mid 120's which IMO isn't fast enough unless you are more accurate than McGrath, which I seriously doubt he is.

 

[Prince EWS]

I haven't seen him bowl, no. I can only assume that by the way some people talk about him as being medium pace is that he will be in the low-mid 120's which IMO isn't fast enough unless you are more accurate than McGrath, which I seriously doubt he is.

Tbh, I think people are just assuming GS is that slow because he isn't getting picked. I've seen no evidence at all to suggest he actually is, other than assumptions.

 

[short shorts]

The BCCI should just follow my ICC 2006 blueprint and play a 5 man bowling attack of Joginder Sharma, Munaf Patel, Piyush Chawla, Pravin Kumar and Jai Prakash Yadav Never lost a test series in 2 years.

 

[Manee]

On the subject, does Joginder Sharma also have a seamer friendly home ground because his FC bowling is superb.

 

[Arjun]

Too much importance is being put on pace, which, though, is scarce in India. What a few bowlers (including the faster ones) need to do is attack the batting, if not bowl at express pace. We find the likes of Gillespie, Harmison, Ntini and bowlers similar in ability to the Indians bowl forcefully. Direct a few at the ribs. Get one whizzing past the ear. Get them bending a lot. And of course, make them play, get a bat to the ball. If one bowler does this, the other can foil by just sticking to a line and length, giving nothing away, and a third can move the ball around.

That said, Zaheer, at his peak, was much faster than any of the current pack. We've seen him go over the 145k mark regularly, even as late as June-August 2002. Had he not got injured so often and had the people in charge taken better care of him, rather than drop him so frequently, we'd see a much better Zaheer Khan take the new ball for India- shockingly, he's repeatedly been given the old ball even when that's not his strength.

Experts say that bowling at express pace is now out of reach, so he can at best swing the ball at a decent pace, without bowling loose deliveries. Sreesanth, given his athleticism, is best suited to bowl fast. Having Zaheer keeping things tight and Sreesanth letting loose on the batting side (not loose on both sides of the wicket) is an ideal new-ball combination, from the current options. It's a much better idea to play him as a tearaway pacer, plan the bowling accordingly and persist with him for a decent period, rather than look for Strike Bowler Number XYZ rightaway.

On the subject, does Joginder Sharma also have a seamer friendly home ground because his FC bowling is superb.

Joginder plays for Haryana, whose State Board is one of the worst-run in the country. They play most of their matches in three different grounds, including one that's recently set up and one that's been out of action for over a decade. A lot of his wickets came against Tier II teams, but he used to gobble them in every match, rather than pinch a few. He even took it forward against the Tier I teams, taking out chunks even as repeated batting failures had his team relegated to Tier II.

For some time, it seems, he was trying to generate extra pace, as he was repeatedly bowling no-balls in the Duleep Trophy, which was drastically reduced once Ranji started. Even his coach said that he's been bowling faster then. The comment from Joginder himself is that as long as there is energy, there is pace. He too is quite athletic, although he had a shocker of a match against the West Indians last time. He's more of a swing bowler.

 

[silentstriker]

1) Pace does matter. Look at Syed Rasel and Irfan Pathan.

Um, Irfan Pathan, if he had accuracy, would still have been a fine fifth bowler at 75mph.

2) Get over the impression that India only has flat tracks and dust bowls. Punjab and Bengal, for example, often prepare seamer-friendly tracks IIRC.

Ah, but he does well even in flat track paradises (he'd have to, in order to keep average that low. Also, look at the number of overs he bowls..no Munaf Patel type conditioning problem either.

3) Bit of a gap between facing Haryana/Karnataka and a test side. That said, Gagandeep should at least get a shot in the A team - an average of 20 can't mean nothing.

A teams are BS. Obviously there is a difference, but First Class records are still the best and most important indicators of whether someone will be a success at the Test level.

 

[adharcric]

Um, Irfan Pathan, if he had accuracy, would still have been a fine fifth bowler at 75mph.

Not really. He would need extraordinary skill to be a force in test cricket at 75 mph. We aren't talking about 5th bowlers but strike bowlers. Rasel? Hell, even Bracken to a degree.

Ah, but he does well even in flat track paradises (he'd have to, in order to keep average that low. Also, look at the number of overs he bowls..no Munaf Patel type conditioning problem either.

Certainly not disputing that. Just telling Manee (IIRC) that India has some greentops and Gagandeep's home ground is one of them, I think. Doesn't mean he isn't a good bowler.

A teams are BS. Obviously there is a difference, but First Class records are still the best and most important indicators of whether someone will be a success at the Test level.

A-level cricket is a notch just below international cricket. Obviously, consistent performances in first-class cricket should get you noticed, but A-level cricket provides exposure to foreign conditions and ensures that you didn't get away against poor oppositions in first-class cricket. A-level cricket is also the best place to try out young prospects who have first-class experience but not enough for test cricket (say, someone like Chawla or VRV). Quite importantly, the Indian selectors will pay a lot of attention to big performers at that level. Since we're talking about a call-up for Gagandeep, that does matter.

 

[iamdavid]

Very interesting and slightly relevant article -

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/india/content/story/264607.html