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View Poll Results: When is someone ready for Test match cricket

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  • As soon as talent is spotted?

    2 5.88%
  • 10 FC games?

    0 0%
  • 50 FC games?

    4 11.76%
  • 75 FC games?

    0 0%
  • Depends entirely on quality of player?

    27 79.41%
  • Must prove themselves in ODIs?

    1 2.94%
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Thread: When is someone ready...?

  1. #31
    International Captain thierry henry's Avatar
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    *token comment about players from the sub-continent being older than officially listed*

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by thierry henry View Post
    *token comment about players from the sub-continent being older than officially listed*
    Racist!!!!!!

  3. #33
    International Captain thierry henry's Avatar
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    lol

    interestingly, I was recently watching the footage of Afridi's 100 off 37 balls in 1996 on youtube, and when he comes out to bat his player profile states his age as 21

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by thierry henry View Post
    lol

    interestingly, I was recently watching the footage of Afridi's 100 off 37 balls in 1996 on youtube, and when he comes out to bat his player profile states his age as 21
    That's on youtube? Don't suppose you have a link?


  5. #35
    Cricket, Lovely Cricket Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thierry henry View Post
    *token comment about players from the sub-continent being older than officially listed*
    Pakistan. Not the subcontinent as a whole..

  6. #36
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Pakistan and Bangladesh, TBH.

    Never any doubt about ages of Indians and Lankans.
    RD
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  7. #37
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    It cannot have happened forever. There has to be times in which youngsters were able enough younger.
    Able - but having better credentials than those already in the side or who were brought in instead?

    What with the relative absence of teenagers in First-Class cricket in these parts, I don't see that there are likely to be many at all who demand Test selection at, say, 21.

  8. #38
    Cricket, Lovely Cricket Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Able - but having better credentials than those already in the side or who were brought in instead?
    If you are constantly denying players more able a chance over x, y, z based on a, b, c factors, obviously there is some thing wrong some where.

    What with the relative absence of teenagers in First-Class cricket in these parts, I don't see that there are likely to be many at all who demand Test selection at, say, 21.
    Shows how deep rooted the problem has been.
    Last edited by Pratters; 21-05-2007 at 04:27 PM.

  9. #39
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    If you are constantly denying players more able a chance over x, y, z based on a, b, c factors, obviously there is some thing wrong some where.
    Not neccessarily. Those denied the chance may not be more able.
    Shows how deep rooted the problem has been.
    Again, not neccessarily. IMO it simply says that most 19-year-olds over here aren't in a situation where they are able or have the desire to play regular domestic cricket.

  10. #40
    Cricket, Lovely Cricket Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Not neccessarily. Those denied the chance may not be more able.
    I will say it again: It cannot have happened forever. There has to be times in which youngsters were able enough younger.

    Again, not neccessarily. IMO it simply says that most 19-year-olds over here aren't in a situation where they are able or have the desire to play regular domestic cricket.
    You are just defending me rather than arguing against me. If country x didn't produce more younger cricketers traditionally, it can be for various reasons. Even if I take each of your assertions, it would only show that the problem is so deep rooted because of x,y,z reasons, various ones which you are even providing.

  11. #41
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    I will say it again: It cannot have happened forever. There has to be times in which youngsters were able enough younger.
    Able enough to do what? Have better credentials to play international cricket than those of a few years older? I don't find it especially inconceivable that such cases have been extremely rare over here.
    You are just defending me rather than arguing against me. If country x didn't produce more younger cricketers traditionally, it can be for various reasons. Even if I take each of your assertions, it would only show that the problem is so deep rooted because of x,y,z reasons, various ones which you are even providing.
    I don't especially think of it as a problem - just the way things are. As you say - there are many reasons why 19-20-21-year-olds rarely play for England. You seemed to me to be suggesting that it was often a result of selectorial whim - the conscious thought "don't pick him because he's too young". When the chance to even have such a candidate to be a remotely plausible pick is pretty rare.

  12. #42
    Cricket, Lovely Cricket Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Able enough to do what? Have better credentials to play international cricket than those of a few years older?
    Better able to play international cricket. Simple as.

    I don't find it especially inconceivable that such cases have been extremely rare over here... I don't especially think of it as a problem - just the way things are. As you say - there are many reasons why 19-20-21-year-olds rarely play for England. You seemed to me to be suggesting that it was often a result of selectorial whim - the conscious thought "don't pick him because he's too young". When the chance to even have such a candidate to be a remotely plausible pick is pretty rare.
    It is definitely a problem if the end result is that fewer younger cricketers are being able to play at the top level. What the reason is - selection, x, y, z is not important. Saying it as just the way things are would be pretty irresponsible if you were, say, a cricket administrator. If I was the cricketer administrator in the country and I was asked why more younger cricketers are not coming up and I would say it is just the way things are, that wouldn't hold good. The reasons you have given are all negatives which means addressing is required. There is an opposite reason for younger players not coming through in a country like say Australia at times because older players are occupying spots. However, that case is different because there are battles for places and only after a Langer retires can a new player be given a chance. A young keeper might face a similar problem in Australia because of say Gilchrist right now. When younger talent cannot come up because of better talent being there at the top, it is perfectly fine. However, when younger talent is not coming up because of x,y,z aspects which can be addressed, it is not just okay to say it is the way things are.
    Last edited by Pratters; 21-05-2007 at 06:00 PM.

  13. #43
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    I would want a player to have played two seasons before being picked for the A Team tour where hopefully they would be assessed on their temperament and skills away from home. Then they would need to get into the ODI squad before Tests. About half the players that do go on the Academy tours that have sounded like very good players have just vanished back to their counties and some have even moved counties. I don't think it is a good idea to pluck someone out of county cricket straight into Tests.

    Wagh, Kenway, Peng, Wood, Wallace, Kirby, Hogg, Muchall, Stevens, Newman, Napier, Tredwell, Lumb, Shafayat, Francis, Wagg, Khalid, Harrison, Powell, Gidman, Wright, Footitt are some of them.

  14. #44
    International Captain cover drive man's Avatar
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    As soon as talent is spotted because it will give them experience as well.
    Everyone wants to change the world, noone wants to change himself.

    -Tolstoy

  15. #45
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    Better able to play international cricket. Simple as.
    I'll say it again - better than someone older? If so, I don't see that there will have been that many cases of it.
    It is definitely a problem if the end result is that fewer younger cricketers are being able to play at the top level. What the reason is - selection, x, y, z is not important. Saying it as just the way things are would be pretty irresponsible if you were, say, a cricket administrator. If I was the cricketer administrator in the country and I was asked why more younger cricketers are not coming up and I would say it is just the way things are, that wouldn't hold good. The reasons you have given are all negatives which means addressing is required. There is an opposite reason for younger players not coming through in a country like say Australia at times because older players are occupying spots. However, that case is different because there are battles for places and only after a Langer retires can a new player be given a chance. A young keeper might face a similar problem in Australia because of say Gilchrist right now. When younger talent cannot come up because of better talent being there at the top, it is perfectly fine. However, when younger talent is not coming up because of x,y,z aspects which can be addressed, it is not just okay to say it is the way things are.
    I don't see a heck of a lot of teenagers playing domestic cricket in Australia, either. Nor South Africa for that matter. I'm less sure about New Zealand and West Indies as I don't take much note of domestic cricket in those parts, but the subcontinent is the only place where you see teenagers playing international cricket all that often.

    As I say - if it were a problem, for me, that'd suggest it was a case of selectors being prejudiced against a player purely because of his age. But I don't see that this is the case. Most 19-20-year-olds are simply occupied doing other things (often University) and only become the sort of people who are up to and into playing full-time pro cricket at a slightly later age.

    Nor do I see that it matters if 19-20-21-year-olds aren't playing at the top level. You don't need to - as long as you get there, it's not a problem if you're not there as a teenager.

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