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View Poll Results: When is someone ready for Test match cricket

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  • As soon as talent is spotted?

    2 5.88%
  • 10 FC games?

    0 0%
  • 50 FC games?

    4 11.76%
  • 75 FC games?

    0 0%
  • Depends entirely on quality of player?

    27 79.41%
  • Must prove themselves in ODIs?

    1 2.94%
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Thread: When is someone ready...?

  1. #16
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    I don't really care if a player had played 1 FC match or 5000. Also, don't care what age a player is. If you are ready, you are ready. Wasim Akram is a classic example. Didn't play too many FC games before he played versus New Zealand did he? If a cricket talent assesser feels a player is ready, he should be playing test cricket rather than wasting his time in the domestic level.
    The problem is always, how do you know a player is ready?

    More often than not they selectors get it wrong when looking at young and inexperienced players.

    Take the list of the Test debutants before 19yrs old.
    http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/STATS/TES...T_PLAYERS.html
    There are obviously a number of superstars on that list (Sobers, Tendulkar, Wasim, Waqar etc) but the list is dominated by players (even when excluding the players from Bangladesh) that had busted careers, poor careers or short careers.

    Given that young debutants would be expected to be a bit special and have a rare talent the success rate in selection of these supposed gifted ones is terrible.

    Take those that debuted at under 19 years in the 1990s (recent enough to be relevant, long enough ago for a career to evolve).

    4 have had decent to good careers (Harbhajan Singh 57 tests, Daniel Vettori 73 tests, Saqlain Mushtaq 49 tests, and Paul Adams 45 tests)

    Nuwan Zoysa falls somewhere in the middle with 30 tests and a bowling average of 33.70

    The rest have been pretty disappointing. Shahid Nazir 15 tests, Saleem Elahi 13 tests, Shadab Kabir 5 tests, Henry Olonga 30 tests but a bowling average of 38.52, Irfan Fazil 1 test, Imran Nazir 8 tests, Zahid Fazal 9 tests, and Hasan Raza 7 tests.

    Guys are certainly getting picked when they are too young. And by that I mean that they are getting selected before their ability can be properly assessed. Thats the problem.

    Clearly getting picked young makes you special as you are a mere pup against men but it doesnt mean a player is a special cricketer.
    If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there will be edits

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  2. #17
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    There's no norm IMO, its completely discretionary based on the circumstances.
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  3. #18
    Cricket, Lovely Cricket Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    The problem is always, how do you know a player is ready?

    More often than not they selectors get it wrong when looking at young and inexperienced players.

    Take the list of the Test debutants before 19yrs old.
    http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/STATS/TES...T_PLAYERS.html
    Most of the players you see on the list are subcontinent players. It is a common known fact that subcontinent selectors select players too early. So I wouldn't use that to illustrate my point. The subcontinent selectors rush players in just as say the English have traditionally left it till too late at times. Then, there are players who demand selection or or you know they are special enough if you are a good adjudicator even when they have not played much (Wasim Akram, Inzamam ul Haq). Tendulkar for instance barged into the Indian test team. Then there is an example of some one like Brian Lara. Sobers insisted Lara be picked but he was picked a good two years later.

    If you think the player is ready, and you know your job, back yourself and pick the player you feel can do the job for you.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    There's no norm IMO, its completely discretionary based on the circumstances.
    what he said


  5. #20
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    It's not just subcontinent players being picked too early. Some kiwi examples are Rutherford, McMillan, Parore(could have had a much longer career) and Crowe. Hayden comes to mind for Aussie.
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  6. #21
    Cricket, Lovely Cricket Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    It's not just subcontinent players being picked too early. Some kiwi examples are Rutherford, McMillan, Parore(could have had a much longer career) and Crowe. Hayden comes to mind for Aussie.
    McMillan had a pretty decent early record.

    997 (age: 20y 110d) 3 6 0 174 54 54 41 29.00 0 2 1
    1998 (21y 110d) 6 10 1 484 142 139 88 53.77 2 2 1
    1999 (22y 110d) 10 16 2 598 107* 92 84 42.71 1 3 0
    2000 (23y 110d) 9 16 1 587 142 79 78 39.13 1 4 2
    2001 (24y 110d) 8 11 1 494 106 98 70 49.40 1 4 1

    It was later that he started being poor.

    2002 (25y 110d) 8 14 2 282 50* 41 41 23.50 0 1 0
    2003 (26y 110d) 4 7 3 290 100* 83* 54 72.50 1 2 0
    2004 (27y 110d) 5 8 0 169 82 30 23 21.12 0 1 2
    2005 (28y 110d) 2 3 0 38 20 13 5 12.66 0 0 0

  7. #22
    Cricket, Lovely Cricket Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    It's not just subcontinent players being picked too early. Some kiwi examples are Rutherford, McMillan, Parore(could have had a much longer career) and Crowe. Hayden comes to mind for Aussie.
    I am not saying other countries do not make mistakes. In selection, you would make mistakes any how regardless of age. But the mistakes are much larger in the case of subcontinent players, and even the proportion (failuers/total) is a fair bit larger.

  8. #23
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    I am not saying other countries do not make mistakes. In selection, you would make mistakes any how regardless of age. But the mistakes are much larger in the case of subcontinent players, and even the proportion (failuers/total) is a fair bit larger.
    Yeah that is very true, something that definitely needs to be addressed.

  9. #24
    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
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    I now think the poll was a silly idea, but the discussion going on is fantastic.

    Subcontinental teams seem to yearn too much for another Sachin Tendulkar when they must realise that he is one of a kind and few if any people can excel at that young an age at test level.

  10. #25
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    just as say the English have traditionally left it till too late at times
    TBH, I think that's just a stereotype. Certainly in my time, there have just not been enough players demanding selection for selectors to be able to turn down a 22-year-old who's ripping up the turf just because of his age.
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  11. #26
    Cricket, Lovely Cricket Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    TBH, I think that's just a stereotype. Certainly in my time, there have just not been enough players demanding selection for selectors to be able to turn down a 22-year-old who's ripping up the turf just because of his age.
    Note the word I used: traditionally.It isn't a stereotype. Your period of watching cricket is small and I didn't restrict myself to the last 10-15 years. Look at the number of debutants England have had who are below the ages of 18/19/20/21/22. It is no secret really.
    Last edited by Pratters; 20-05-2007 at 12:39 PM.

  12. #27
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    But we don't really know the circumstances in, say, 1962 when these youngsters weren't being selected. For all we know those who were instead could have had much better credentials.

  13. #28
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    The problem is always, how do you know a player is ready?

    More often than not they selectors get it wrong when looking at young and inexperienced players.

    Take the list of the Test debutants before 19yrs old.
    http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/STATS/TES...T_PLAYERS.html
    There are obviously a number of superstars on that list (Sobers, Tendulkar, Wasim, Waqar etc) but the list is dominated by players (even when excluding the players from Bangladesh) that had busted careers, poor careers or short careers.
    Looking at that list and it seems to me that the selectors didn't really get it wrong majority of times considering some of the more successful players (from subcontinent) are in that list.

  14. #29
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush View Post
    If you think the player is ready, and you know your job, back yourself and pick the player you feel can do the job for you.
    Correct. There should be no age descrimination. If a player is good and available, he should be in the team.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    But we don't really know the circumstances in, say, 1962 when these youngsters weren't being selected. For all we know those who were instead could have had much better credentials.
    It cannot have happened forever. There has to be times in which youngsters were able enough younger.

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