Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
But The ECB are no big brother to Ireland - Ireland are a part of the team reprisented by The ECB, and the best Irish players will always end-up reprisenting that team if they're good enough.
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***Official** South Africa v India in Ireland
- Thread starter James
- Start date
LA ICE-E
State Captain
Yeah I know, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't get the chance to play for Ireland when they are playing.
LA ICE-E
State Captain
Why you keep insisting that? NO IRELAND is NOT represented by the EBC/England, Wales is but Ireland and Scotland isn't. The best Irish players will only end-up playing for England up the point where they don't have test status. After, they will not do the same thing. ECB is a big brother to Ireland, Scotland and Netherlands.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
If that is so, how come the likes of Joyce and Morgan have had to serve qualifying periods?
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Holland, yes. Scotland and Ireland, no. The best Irish players have always played for England, Ireland has never produced enough good players to warrant Test status, and therefore if Irish players want to play it they've gotta play for England.
Until very recently and the bastardisation of ODIs, the same applied there, too.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Yes, and that's because they are a separate nation and nothing you will say can change that.
LA ICE-E
State Captain
Really than how come they don't define Wales as separate?
LA ICE-E
State Captain
Just because they did(past tense) doesn't mean they will continue to if they get test status. Test status isn't given because you have test quality players but that you meet all the criteria of test status such as domestic system and cricket being a major sport etc, playing standard isn't the main thing to get test status.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
So are Jamaica and Barbados and nothing you say can change the fact that they don't play in international cricket as themselves, but their geographical region.
Political nations and international cricket teams do not neccessarily go hand-in-hand.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
It doesn't matter in the slightest why.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
None of which have ever applied to Ireland, any more than they have to Yorkshire or Kent.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
A completely different situation and you know it.
Ireland is a separate cricketing nation from England, hence the qualifying periods needed for the likes of Joyce and Morgan.
And again, a completely different situation.
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
I do not think the geographical position or governing of Ireland are of importance. I just believe that clarification is necessary as to their position as a country/county.
The idea of having Scotland and Ireland play in the Friends Provident Trophy seems good. However, if both wish to be ODI teams (which Ireland are as of 1st January 2006), schedule conflicts would be rife and prior planning must deal with that. I believe the best way to combat this would be to have Scotland in the Friends Provident Trophy but as a full ODI team, Ireland cannot and should not play in it.
Now, back on to the subject of the series: I think that Sehwag may struggle against Rankin and Nel's bouncy bowling as well as Ntini's in duckers. This and the timing of the series may be the final nail in Sehwag's career's coffin or it may be the series that saves it.
As for bowlers, this may be a critical series for India as to who their pacers are as the usually overcast and green conditions of Ireland will be helpful to the seam bowlers and it will also help India decide whether Chawla and Powar can succeed in unhelpful wickets which will key to see who succeeds Kumble as the Indian spin spearhead.
The idea of having Scotland and Ireland play in the Friends Provident Trophy seems good. However, if both wish to be ODI teams (which Ireland are as of 1st January 2006), schedule conflicts would be rife and prior planning must deal with that. I believe the best way to combat this would be to have Scotland in the Friends Provident Trophy but as a full ODI team, Ireland cannot and should not play in it.
Now, back on to the subject of the series: I think that Sehwag may struggle against Rankin and Nel's bouncy bowling as well as Ntini's in duckers. This and the timing of the series may be the final nail in Sehwag's career's coffin or it may be the series that saves it.
As for bowlers, this may be a critical series for India as to who their pacers are as the usually overcast and green conditions of Ireland will be helpful to the seam bowlers and it will also help India decide whether Chawla and Powar can succeed in unhelpful wickets which will key to see who succeeds Kumble as the Indian spin spearhead.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Neither are different. Ireland have only been defined as a separate cricketing country since I$C$C got crazed on the "Global" goal in the mid-1990s.
The fact that Ireland is a different political nation from England is irrelevant - it does not mean their cricketing territory cannot be one. And it has been one - and continues to be even despite Irish players facing the obstacle of having to qualify for England.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
The best thing would be to have both play in the Friends Provident and neither get recognised as ODI sides.
thats abit harsh...ireland beat pakistan and bangladesh in the WC...they deserve status...with that, though, they should not be a county team as well.
But...i guess what ur trying to say is that for the big teams to play ireland would be a waste of time more often than not.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Yorkshire could quite conceivably have beaten Pakistan in the World Cup too. In any case, I don't think the prospect of Ireland being a long-term ODI side is realistic, because their best players will always want to - quite rightly - play in and for England. Not to mention the fact that interest in the game has never been exactly high enough to maintain a county-standard, never mind international-standard, team.
Ireland have always been more equivalent to a county than a national side... and only because I$C$C are obsessed with making the game look Global are they being considered a separate national side.
Ireland have always been more equivalent to a county than a national side... and only because I$C$C are obsessed with making the game look Global are they being considered a separate national side.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Well I certainly don't think Zimbabwe should have ODI status and haven't for 4 years, and have never believed Bangladesh or Kenya deserve it either... though that may soon change in the case of the former.
Even if you did give it to all of the aforementioned, though... I'd still not be in favour of Ireland having it, any more than I would for Jamaica or Trinidad&Tobago.
Even if you did give it to all of the aforementioned, though... I'd still not be in favour of Ireland having it, any more than I would for Jamaica or Trinidad&Tobago.