The Most Criticized Player

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Here at Cricket Web, we make it a hobby to criticize the cricketing greats such as Agarkar. Who do you think is the most criticized player in cricket? I figure it would have to be Lara or Stewart (AA not inclusive)

Both are exceptional players but got alot of pressure from the press for anything resembling failure. In both cases, phrases such as "lack of commitment" were used.

 

[Rik]

Nasser Hussain for his leg theory and stuff, even though Fleming does it a lot and is put down as a great captain, ok he's a good one but still not great. Anyway Lara I would agree with he is still a great player dispite his many problems. Good question though, hard to think of one particular one...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Another player I think is Hick. Yes he's under achieved and all but he hasn't been horrible at Test Level. I mean, he hasn't been a disgrace. Last check his Test avge was up around 32 which is modest but decent. He was always one of the better English ODI players I believe.

I think Hick's problem is that he is too good for his own good. If he didn't have such a brilliant reputation, he may have had an easier time with the press.

 

[Rik]

Originally posted by Mr Mxyzptlk
Another player I think is Hick. Yes he's under achieved and all but he hasn't been horrible at Test Level. I mean, he hasn't been a disgrace. Last check his Test avge was up around 32 which is modest but decent. He was always one of the better English ODI players I believe.

Yeah true and I still feel Hick might be a useful ODI player but he looked really dreadful in Pakistan and Sri Lanka before he was dropped and his last innings was 46 off 112 balls or something in a ODI in Sri Lanka.
I think Hick's problem is that he is too good for his own good. If he didn't have such a brilliant reputation, he may have had an easier time with the press.

 

[Rich2001]

Well you can see from just this forum that any Surrey player gets criticized just for breathing.....

Overall it's extermley hard to pin point certian players, yeah some players get a bit more but generally anyone who has a poor performance in any game gets slated. I guess players such as A.Giles (bowling tactics), S.Banger, Z.Khan, A.Stewart, S.Waugh / M.Waugh, B.Lee have all had their talent knocked in recent times.

 

[Rik]

Originally posted by Rich2001
Well you can see from just this forum that any Surrey player gets criticized just for breathing.....

Overall it's extermley hard to pin point certian players, yeah some players get a bit more but generally anyone who has a poor performance in any game gets slated. I guess players such as A.Giles (bowling tactics), S.Banger, Z.Khan, A.Stewart, S.Waugh / M.Waugh, B.Lee have all had their talent knocked in recent times.

Yeah, its the way it goes really. The problem with Surrey is that although they have Test Class players like Stewart and Thorpe, some of them are Test Class but never quite fufill their talent and no one is sure why. Just look at the list:

Adam Hollioke
Ben Hollioke
Ian Salisbury
Ian Ward
Ali Brown
Martin Bicknell
Mark Ramprakash
Alex Tudor
James Ormond (Hasn't really shown much despite few oppertunities)
And until just recently Ed Giddins, before he moved to Hampshire. Also until recently Butcher would have been in that list.

Now the reason why Surrey players are considered over-rated is because they usually fail to make anything of their talent on the International Scene. I mean all Surrey need is Hick and they've got almost the definitive list of good players, who are just not good enough for International Cricket, or are good enough just don't show it.

 

[Tim]

Explain where you've seen Fleming use the legside tactics Rik?

In Australian he never used it & against England he didn't.

 

[Rik]

Originally posted by Tim
Explain where you've seen Fleming use the legside tactics Rik?

In Australian he never used it & against England he didn't.

I never ment to say he did I just said he hasn't been amazingly positive and the way he deliberatly lost to South Africa last season in the VB Series was just about as bad as the Leg Tactics. They were both against the spirit of the game but were successful like Bodyline. It's just that Hussain gets all the critisism for being Negative and I've never heard a word against Fleming. Sorry I phrased that badly.

[Edited on 7/12/2002 by Rik]

 

[Tim]

Alot of the channel 9 commentators praised Fleming for the way he strangled players such as Damien Martyn & Ricky Ponting during that series.

His field settings were always precise & they never occured after a ball had gone into a vacant area.

Since then..you could say Fleming has been a little of his game, but im hopeful that he will have created some ideas for the Indian team because without several of our key players, they will need to apply more pressure in the field.

 

[Rik]

Originally posted by Tim
Alot of the channel 9 commentators praised Fleming for the way he strangled players such as Damien Martyn & Ricky Ponting during that series.

His field settings were always precise & they never occured after a ball had gone into a vacant area.

Since then..you could say Fleming has been a little of his game, but im hopeful that he will have created some ideas for the Indian team because without several of our key players, they will need to apply more pressure in the field.

Yup but he's an example of a captain who's not amazingly attacking and gets loads of praise while Nasser who's not really done an amazing ammount wrong (except his constant bloody field changes) gets bashed all the time.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Concerning Martin Bicknell, its not really fair to say he hasn't performed becuase he wasn't given much of an opportunity and I think Ormond bowled pretty well without success on his debut.

 

[Bazza]

Yeah when I saw this I was gonna vote for Hussain. Also I've always liked Hick. Used to will him to be a success. I think he was a very good ODI player, and should certainly have stayed in the side longer, even if maybe not until now. Certainly it seems his chance has gone, not being named in the WC 30 and all.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

England could definitely use his experience in SA though.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Originally posted by Rik
The way he deliberately lost to South Africa last season in the VB Series was just about as bad

That was Genius...
It's the Aussies' fault for that stupid bonus point system!

 

[Gotchya]

For all intentions and purposes it is Nasser Hussain.

Reason 1 : He captains England
Reason 2 : He has to face the aussies in the ashes, every now and then.

I think that the problem here is that, while the ashes is a great tradition and has immense importance for spectators and players alike, England have fallen from grace, they are not any longer what such a competetion demands. Yet still they are forced to be judged side by side with a very strong opposition, which is primarily why any English captain will find it very very hard against the English press. Let alone talk about the aussie press. This is Hussain at present. People dont understand immediately what type of problems he is facing. A thinning resourse of good killer talent, and to top that the constant curse of injuries(not onlt the present one) to good performers. All this and show me someone who can face the wrath of the tabloids........

 

[Neil Pickup]

So, how many different spellings of "Nasser" are we going to get in this thread?

 

[Gotchya]

I didn't see a variation in there ?

 

[Neil Pickup]

There wasn't...

I'm just waiting for some

 

[Kimbo]

Nfiucwhruicuttnrwugt Hussain is pretty criticized I agree.
And I also agree with Neil, the way Fleming lost to RSA was genius, they couldnt beat South Africa anyway though...

 

[anzac]

Hussain gets the current vote because his is the current series of calamities.....

prior to The Ashes the vote would go to AA - for all the usual reasons (even if he has bowled well v CD).....

just as an aside - I think Fleming has earnt his praise for what he has managed to do with so little resources over the past couple of years. Until Bond he did not really have an attacking bowling weapon with most of his attack being injured!!!!!

The same can be said of Hussain who had dragged England back into some sort of respectability prior to this series, where he has been found wanting (I think it is safe to say that the unreasonable expectations of The Ashes & pressure from injuries & the English press have more than contributed to his undoing). He is not the worst Captain in the world, and everyone has a series they would rather forget in some shape or form sooner or latter - this is his.