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Thread: Allrounders Vs Batsmen and Bowlers

  1. #1
    U19 12th Man xanderbiscuits's Avatar
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    Allrounders Vs Batsmen and Bowlers

    Who do you think would win a 3 match series (One Test, One 50 Overs a side, One Twenty20) between a team of allrounders and a WK and a team of Batsmen and Bowlers with a WK?

    You can imagine any teams you want from any coutries and any time periods.

  2. #2
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    The specialists would clean up in the Test and probably the ODI, but hit and miss when it comes to the Twenty20 though.
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    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Batsmen/bowlers side would certainly win the ODI - a lot of the allrounders' skills would end up totally wasted.. one of them would have to bat #11 and one would be 10th bowling option, for example.

    The test I think would go to the allrounders, if not end in a draw. The full depth of the batting lineup could be utilised, as could the different bowlers as the conditions changed throughout the match. I couldn't see ten quality allrounders and a wicket-keeper being dismissed twice and have their runs chased down, even though the bowling attack would obviously be quite strong.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Wot 'e said.
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    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    I think it really depends. Give me a list of players considered allrounders..

    Is Graeme Smith considered an allrounder in ODI's for example? He gets a little ball besides his name on the team sheet.

    I'll say the allrounders will win the ODI matches - Who gets first choice for the keeper?

  6. #6
    International 12th Man deeps's Avatar
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    Shahid Afridi
    Sanath Jayasuriya
    Kumar Sangakkara
    Shoaib Malik
    Jacques Kallis
    Paul Collingwood
    Andrew Flintoff
    Shane Watson
    Jacob Oram
    Shaun Pollock
    Brad Hogg

    Hard team to beat that one

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    Quote Originally Posted by deeps View Post
    Shahid Afridi
    Sanath Jayasuriya
    Kumar Sangakkara
    Shoaib Malik
    Jacques Kallis
    Paul Collingwood
    Andrew Flintoff
    Shane Watson
    Jacob Oram
    Shaun Pollock
    Brad Hogg

    Hard team to beat that one
    Pretty confident that a team consiting of this would beat them.

    Tendulkar
    Gilchrist (wk)
    Ponting
    Pietersen
    Sarwan
    Hussey
    Lee
    Vaas
    Bond
    Muralitharan
    McGrath

  8. #8
    International 12th Man deeps's Avatar
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    The main problem is that most of the team i came up with are BATTING all rounders. Pollock Flintoff and Hogg are the only real bowling all rounders on that side. If there was one more bowling all rounder, i think it'd be far more even.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deeps View Post
    The main problem is that most of the team i came up with are BATTING all rounders. Pollock Flintoff and Hogg are the only real bowling all rounders on that side. If there was one more bowling all rounder, i think it'd be far more even.
    I would hardly consider Brad Hogg as an allrounder really, just a bowler who is handy with the bat.

  10. #10
    International 12th Man deeps's Avatar
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    He is as handy with the bat as Collingwood is handy with the ball really.

    At internatinoal level he hasn't managed to show it as much due to coming out in the slog overs and he isn't a slogger.

    He does average 35 in first class cricket...funnily enough only really 1.5 runs behind Cameron White, who everyone considers a batsman who can bowl a bit.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeps View Post
    He is as handy with the bat as Collingwood is handy with the ball really.

    At internatinoal level he hasn't managed to show it as much due to coming out in the slog overs and he isn't a slogger.

    He does average 35 in first class cricket
    Yes, he also averages over 40 as a bowler in First Class cricket, hardly impressive figures.

  12. #12
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeps View Post
    Shahid Afridi
    Sanath Jayasuriya
    Kumar Sangakkara
    Shoaib Malik
    Jacques Kallis
    Paul Collingwood
    Andrew Flintoff
    Shane Watson
    Jacob Oram
    Shaun Pollock
    Brad Hogg

    Hard team to beat that one
    Can't believe some of your selections

    1 Jayasuriya
    2 Gayle
    3 Kallis
    4 Sangakarra (since gilly is already taken)
    5 Collingwood
    6 Styris
    7 Symonds
    8 Flintoff
    9 Oram
    10 Razzaq
    11 Pollock
    Last edited by NUFAN; 24-04-2007 at 09:47 PM.

  13. #13
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    As I said, a lot of the players abilities would become completely wasted in an ODI team featuring 10 allrounders and a wicket keeper. The specialists would have balance issues, but at the same time, there's little point in someone batting #11 who isn't considered as specialist bowler. An ODI allrounders team would probably look something like this:

    Watson
    Gayle/Jayasuriya
    Kallis
    Sangakkara
    Symonds
    Collingwood
    Flintoff
    Oram/Bravo
    Pollock
    Hall
    Hogg

    Now there's pretty much no chance of Watson, Symonds or Collingwood bowling, and their opposition would have specialist batsmen of a higher standard. And at the same time, it'd be pretty useless having Pollock at 9, Hall at 10 and Hogg at 11 - their skills would be wasted while the opposition would have better bowlers. Their batting would become irrelevant. While an allrounders team would look very good on paper in ODIs, it really wouldn't work too well in practice.

    Tests are a totally different story as I mentioned before, as you can utilise different bowlers in different conditions as the pitch changes character throughout and the match, and you can also make full use of your deep batting lineup by virtue of the fact that you can bat forever.

  14. #14
    International 12th Man deeps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    Can't believe some of your selections

    1 Jayasuriya
    2 Gayle
    3 Kallis
    4 Sangakarra (since gilly is already taken)
    5 Collingwood
    6 Styris
    7 Symonds
    8 Flintoff
    9 Oram
    10 Razzaq
    11 Pollock
    Ok so you've dropped Afridi, who is a very good ODI bowler. The team is already short on bowling. Yes i should have had Styris and Symonds but not Razzaq imo. The rest of the selections are the same.

    Pollock, Flintoff are guaranteed 10 over bowlers, Oram probably not, Symonds is ok.

    Pollock 10
    Flintoff 10
    Kallis 8
    Symonds 6
    Oram 4

    This is why Afridi is required.. He's another 8.. your side is thin on quality bowling. Hogg is 10
    Last edited by deeps; 24-04-2007 at 11:52 PM.

  15. #15
    International 12th Man deeps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Now there's pretty much no chance of Watson, Symonds or Collingwood bowling, and their opposition would have specialist batsmen of a higher standard. And at the same time, it'd be pretty useless having Pollock at 9, Hall at 10 and Hogg at 11 - their skills would be wasted while the opposition would have better bowlers. Their batting would become irrelevant. While an allrounders team would look very good on paper in ODIs, it really wouldn't work too well in practice.

    Tests are a totally different story as I mentioned before, as you can utilise different bowlers in different conditions as the pitch changes character throughout and the match, and you can also make full use of your deep batting lineup by virtue of the fact that you can bat forever.
    Collingwood would make the England team without his bowling ability, Symonds would make the Aus team wihtout his bowling ability. So yes, whilst there might be better batsman on the specialist side, they may not be significantly better. The longer batting line up makes up for the difference anyway. Pollock, Flintoff and Hogg are brilliant ODI bowlers, as well as Afridi being pretty decent as well. There's enough quality bowling there imo.

    I think the batting equals out (ie. longer tail matches the slightly better specialist) but the bowling, the specialist team would be at advantage.

    But ODI's are very unpredictable and if any of these all rounders have a gd day, it's bye bye specialist team. And vice versa of course... i think it'd be far closer than you think though. IN a 5 ODI series, i'd say 3-2 either way.,

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