Major England ODI Overhaul Needed

[ozone]

That's exactly the kind of attitude England don't want.

Like SS said, the two forms of the game should be treated seperately.

The order has **** all to do with it, Joyce Bell Strauss and vaughan are just slow end off, batting them anywhere will not change that, and just because they are good test players doesn't mean they should get the free ride in ODIs that they have been getting.

I have not once said that Joyce, Bell, Strauss and Vaughan should be playing! You cannot treat the two forms separately either as everything should be working towards making the Test side the best in the world.

I am trying to say that at the moment, England are using their Test team in ODIs and it isn't working. They are currently just getting their Test batsmen out of form.

IMO, Vaughan should play because he is the Test captain and having different captains for Test and ODIs is often counter-productive. Strauss shouldn't be in the ODI side (except as a replacement for Vaughans next injury) and I am still undecided on Bell, but if he plays he should not open with Vaughan. England should bring in an opener who will take advantage of the powerplays. Period.

 

[open365]

No that's ridiculous, the ODI and test teams should work seperately with the aim of being the best team they can be.

When has having different captains been counter productive? Look at nasser Hussain if you want more proof that being a captain shouldn't give you a free ride in the side.

Vaughan is no question the worst batsman in ODIs right now, the fact the he's played so many of them is a testament to flawed ideals on behalf of the coaching/selecting staff and the direness of the English side.

 

[ozone]

No that's ridiculous, the ODI and test teams should work seperately with the aim of being the best team they can be.

When has having different captains been counter productive? Look at nasser Hussain if you want more proof that being a captain shouldn't give you a free ride in the side.

Vaughan is no question the worst batsman in ODIs right now, the fact the he's played so many of them is a testament to flawed ideals on behalf of the coaching/selecting staff and the direness of the English side.

Nasser Hussain is the only reason I would keep Vaughan as captain. This may sound weird but in his autobiography, he says that once he lost the captaincy of the ODI team, he felt it was only a matter of time before he lost the Test captaincy. Atherton talks of something similar happening when he was captain.

The fact is that if you take Vaughan out, Strauss is the obvious replacement and at the moment he's not much better. Englands test team cannot do without Vaughan as captain and that may happen if he loses the ODI captaincy. As SS says, Test team should be main focus.

As Vaughan has to play IMO, he should bat down the order and Bell should open. This would mean he could act in a finishing role similar to the lower order Sri Lankan batsmen.

 

[Benny2k1]

Trescothick
Bell
KP
Strauss
Flintoff
Collingwood
Bopara
Nixon
Broad
Panesar
Anderson

I would guess that will be what we will go with if Tresco gets his form/mind rite

 

[Langeveldt]

What happened to Loye? Did he just not do much?

I don't see how Nixon makes the team any better, yes he's a good gloveman, but when you look at what is expected of you as a batsman these days, he just doesn't compare to the likes of Sangakkara, Boucher, Gilchrist etc.

 

[ozone]

What happened to Loye? Did he just not do much?

He didn't perform well enough for Fletcher and hes getting old so was overlooked. People were suprised he was dumped so quickly though.

 

[Langeveldt]

He didn't perform well enough for Fletcher and hes getting old so was overlooked. People were suprised he was dumped so quickly though.

As opposed to someone like Mahmood, who is of course, young

 

[PhoenixFire]

he just doesn't compare to the likes of Sangakkara, Boucher, Gilchrist etc.

And Read and Jones do?

 

[ozone]

Thats why Mahmoods there. Hes not actually the young bowler with the most potential either.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

England are just a poor ODI team, they can tinker and change all they like, they have been doing that since 1999 and its got them nowhere.. Why would it work now?

Because an overhaul is more than just tinkering. An overhaul pertains to wholesale changes from the foundation of the system upwards. And England (like the West Indies) desperately needs such action.

 

[Scaly piscine]

This would be along the lines of the side I'd pick, if they were all available. I don't follow enough County Cricket to know of all the keeping, top order potential. This one looks a bit weak in terms of bowling options if someone can't bowl 10.


Trescothick
Benning etc.
Bell
KP
*Collingwood
Bopara
Flintoff
+Foster/Davies etc.
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson

 

[Langeveldt]

And Read and Jones do?

No.. I'm not saying that there is an adequate solution, because there aint.. Can Tres still keep wicket? Thats a serious question

 

[Pup Clarke]

A future England ODI X1 building up to the 2011 WC could be...

Bell
Benning
Pietersen
Bopara
Collingwood
Flintoff
Davies
Rashid
Tom Smith
Sidebottom
Anderson

 

[Langeveldt]

I heard Ian Harvey and Stewart Law are now both England citizens.. Better players than all but three of Englands current ODI side in my opinion..

 

[simmy]

I heard Ian Harvey and Stewart Law are now both England citizens.. Better players than all but three of Englands current ODI side in my opinion..

Lol Harvey maybe... Get him in there!

 

[Richard]

I heard Ian Harvey and Stewart Law are now both England citizens.. Better players than all but three of Englands current ODI side in my opinion..

And both now far too old, given that 2011 is now the time of relevance.

Anyway, Harvey's as much a SAfrican as a Brit.

 

[Richard]

A future England ODI X1 building up to the 2011 WC could be...

Bell
Benning
Pietersen
Bopara
Collingwood
Flintoff
Davies
Rashid
Tom Smith
Sidebottom
Anderson

Adil Rashid?

Really.

I'm beginning to wonder whether he'll disappear sans-trace this season. He's done virtually nothing of note to date, and in any case - he's 19 years old, for crying out loud! Just wait and see!

Nor can I see Davies in the ODI side any time soon if the thing's picked with any sense.

 

[Richard]

Nasser Hussain is the only reason I would keep Vaughan as captain. This may sound weird but in his autobiography, he says that once he lost the captaincy of the ODI team, he felt it was only a matter of time before he lost the Test captaincy. Atherton talks of something similar happening when he was captain.

Just because Hussain felt a certain way (and Atherton didn't - read his book properly, he never had the Test captaincy after giving-up the ODI one) doesn't mean it has to work the same with Vaughan. Hussain was 35 at the time in question, Vaughan is just 32 and, in theory at least, in the prime of his career. If his knees are in a fit state, he could quite conceivably captain the Test side for the next 3 years. But his ODI position has long been untenable.

If there is any doubt left in any one person's mind that he is not and never will be a ODI-standard batsman I want to know why.

 

[Prince EWS]

NZ have a hell of a lot mroe talent than England do.

That's not a team attitude, that's how they play, KP and Flintoff score quickly, Bell Strauss Joyce and Vaughan score slowly, it's just who they are.

I actually don't think Joyce scores that slowly - he just isn't very good. When he's actually scoring runs, he looks in reasonable crontrol and scores at a fair rate. Failing that, he gets out.

 

[Prince EWS]

No.. I'm not saying that there is an adequate solution, because there aint.. Can Tres still keep wicket? Thats a serious question

He does it a little bit. So does Cook - he kept in a game or two for whichever county team he plays for, last season. They'd be in the Dravid mould though I'm guessing, and the last thing England need at the moment is another problem - a keeper who can't keep.

I have a feeling England will try to kill two birds with one stone and open the batting with Matt Prior, much to Richard's disgust I'm sure!