ICC must help Ireland

[Triple Crown]

Watching Ireland at the WC, you get a feeling that there is genuine potential for them to become a genuinely decent team in world cricket.

Even one of the English team is actually Irish, Ireland would be even stronger if he played for them instead of England.

Raising the standard of the Associate nations is always a problem. The skills gap between the haves and have nots is huge.

But in Ireland, and to a lesser extent Holland, you get the feeling that there is a genuine chance that with intensive help & development funding from the ICC they could improve and join the big cricket nations just like Sri Lanka & Bangladesh did.

Ireland is next to England, and possibly could be gradually integrated into their 1st class setup, if they are not already. It would not be a difficult thing to do. As I said before, there are similar opportunities with Holland.

 

[LA ICE-E]

yeah some of the thoughts that i say. And the ICC is helping them. They are doing a ok job in the development even though it's messing up on the roots. What the ICC needs to do is aside from the china project, it needs to target the teams that are already showing encouraging signs-Ireland, Kenya and get them up to the standards and then target some more, whilst still helping the others as they are now but just target one or two country and boost it even more and after that target some more.

 

[pup11]

I think the ICC would (and is) support Irish cricket board with money but its the Irish cricket board that would need to implement some plans to improve the standard of cricket in Ireland.


It would also help if all the emerging Irish talent stops migrating to England.

 

[Triple Crown]

It would also help if all the emerging Irish talent stops migrating to England.

This is not just a problem with the Irish.

Pretty much any good player from a non-test country who has a chance to become a professional cricketer & play 1st class & test cricket, would jump at the chance if they could move to another country to achieve it.

I'm sure there are a few Scottish born players who moved south to play 1st class cricket and try to make it for England.

Perhaps the ICC can look at some kind of compromise, allowing dual nationalities for players born in Associate member countries, purely for the World Cup.

For example, the Irish guy who plays for England. He could be an England player 99% of the time, but when the world cup comes around, he could be given the choice of playing for England or Ireland.

That's just one idea. The issue is complex. Its like how New Zealand & Australia poach a lot of talented Pacific Island rugby players who are looking for a better life, or how the French Football team has had players from former colonies in French Polynesia & Africa. Its not a problem unique to cricket.

 

[BoyBrumby]

This is not just a problem with the Irish.

Pretty much any good player from a non-test country who has a chance to become a professional cricketer & play 1st class & test cricket, would jump at the chance if they could move to another country to achieve it.

I'm sure there are a few Scottish born players who moved south to play 1st class cricket and try to make it for England.

Perhaps the ICC can look at some kind of compromise, allowing dual nationalities for players born in Associate member countries, purely for the World Cup.

For example, the Irish guy who plays for England. He could be an England player 99% of the time, but when the world cup comes around, he could be given the choice of playing for England or Ireland.

That's just one idea. The issue is complex. Its like how New Zealand & Australia poach a lot of talented Pacific Island rugby players who are looking for a better life, or how the French Football team has had players from former colonies in French Polynesia & Africa. Its not a problem unique to cricket.

Oooo. The bait's loaded; will Volty bite?!?

I do agree with what you say tho. I really don't blame any bloke for wishing to test himself at the highest level in his sport, so it's only natural that guys like Joyce & Niall O'Brien would want to play test cricket. Obviously this doesn't help the strength of their national side so a compromise as you suggest is a possibility.

International Rugby League is a bit of a joke, so it's possibly not the best example to use, but it's the only other sport where I can think they have a similar arrangment. Guys like Mason, Ricketson & Tuqiri played for Tonga, Ireland & Fiji respectively in the last League WC & then went on to represent Australia in tests afterwards.

 

[LA ICE-E]

there's tests in rugby?

 

[BoyBrumby]

there's tests in rugby?

Yep. Both codes. In Australia they do not consider League World Cup games as "tests" tho.

 

[LA ICE-E]

This is not just a problem with the Irish.

Pretty much any good player from a non-test country who has a chance to become a professional cricketer & play 1st class & test cricket, would jump at the chance if they could move to another country to achieve it.

I'm sure there are a few Scottish born players who moved south to play 1st class cricket and try to make it for England.

Perhaps the ICC can look at some kind of compromise, allowing dual nationalities for players born in Associate member countries, purely for the World Cup.

For example, the Irish guy who plays for England. He could be an England player 99% of the time, but when the world cup comes around, he could be given the choice of playing for England or Ireland.

That's just one idea. The issue is complex. Its like how New Zealand & Australia poach a lot of talented Pacific Island rugby players who are looking for a better life, or how the French Football team has had players from former colonies in French Polynesia & Africa. Its not a problem unique to cricket.

Well the icc do have a compromise right now. If a player from india wanted to play for australia then you would have to stay in australia for 4 years without playing 1st class cricket for any other country. Since Morgan is trying to qualify to play for england, in a normal situation, he wouldn't represent ireland right now. But the icc lets players who are trying to quality for different country represent associate countries so in that 4 year qualification period he at least helps out but its understandable although it would be nice if they didn't sell out their country.

Playing for two teams though would complicated because if you played for england right before the wc than you know their plans and how they play and so if you play for ireland in the wc that isn't fair for england. also it would question who you're committed to playing for england or ireland and things of that sort.

 

[LA ICE-E]

Yep. Both codes. In Australia they do not consider League World Cup games as "tests" tho.

is there odi too? but what do tests mean in rugby codes? and what is it called when its not a test and what's the difference?

 

[BoyBrumby]

is there odi too? but what do tests mean in rugby codes? and what is it called when its not a test and what's the difference?

Ha!

The distinction seems fairly arbitrary in League. Basically there are only really three countries where the sport has a serious following (Great Britain, Australia & NZ) & another couple where it's played a little bit (France & Papua New Guinea). In the last couple of World Cups there have been "lesser" countries competing like Tonga, Fiji, Samoa & South Africa plus GB is split up into England, Scotland, Wales & Ireland. I think the theory in Australia is that a game v one of these nations isn't of the same standard as one against GB or NZ, so they aren't accorded "test" status.

 

[LA ICE-E]

so they aren't accutally any different except the teams playing?

 

[BoyBrumby]

so they aren't accutally any different except the teams playing?

No, basically. Same rules, oval ball, 13-a-side (15 in Union, obv).

To draw an analogy, if Australia were to play (say) the Netherlands in cricket in the full version (i.e. not one-day) of the sport it wouldn't be a "test" as the Dutch don't have test status; in League it's the same when Australia played Fiji or Russia.

 

[DCC_legend]

In Ireland, there is huge potential for a good cricket team, one that will challenge the likes of England and Australia. There is a lot of young, talented cricketers in ireland, but many clubs (especially those in the Northern Ireland Cricket Union) have very basic, if any, coaching facilities. I speak from experience as i have played clubs, that definetly have talent, but the lack of coaching support, from both clubs and the ICU + NCU leads to the talent being wasted.
The ICU also does not have the facilities or funds to provide for the younger cricketers, as i have heard very little reference to any coaching camps or age group scouts, that many of the bigger nations have.
At my club inparticular, there is no coaching whatsoever. In the past 5 years only 2 players under the age of 19 have recieved coaching, and even this was very basic skills coaching. Many of the younger players are being forced to go to the bigger clubs in belfast, this leaves my club with a deficit of younger and talented players.
The lack of scouting in ireland, particularly at the lower levels of cricket leads to little recognition for players at these levels, and usually its the bigger clubs, with roots in the first or second divsions that get the scouting and coaching.

As for "emerging talent emigrating to england", i can fully understand why they are doing this. The lack of funding and facilities at the clubs drives them away. Many of the professionals are from overseas mainly South Africa, New Zealand, India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. If clubs were to give professional contracts to the better players at each of the clubs, or at least some sort of wage, i think a lot more of the players would stay over here and want to participate in the Irish leagues.

For this to be implimented i think not only the ICC but the Irish and Northern Irish Governments need to inject some sort of funding towards the future of Irish Cricket.
Currently, most of the sports funding is going into Rugby and Football as these are the main sports. Also the GAA (Gaelic Athletic Assoc. - Gaelic Footbal and Hurley) are recieving funding. There may be a small amount of funding going towards cricket as Ireland are now competing on the international scene regularly, but more is required to push the Irish to the next level.

 

[Goughy]

Ha!

The distinction seems fairly arbitrary in League. Basically there are only really three countries where the sport has a serious following (Great Britain, Australia & NZ) & another couple where it's played a little bit (France & Papua New Guinea). In the last couple of World Cups there have been "lesser" countries competing like Tonga, Fiji, Samoa & South Africa plus GB is split up into England, Scotland, Wales & Ireland. I think the theory in Australia is that a game v one of these nations isn't of the same standard as one against GB or NZ, so they aren't accorded "test" status.

Harsh on PNG where it is the national sport and the most played sport in the country.

 

[vince480]

It would also help if all the emerging Irish talent stops migrating to England.

Unfortuntely this will keep happening until Ireland become a Test status nation and start playing test cricket. You can't really blame the players for wanting to play the highest standard of cricket (no matter who its for).

But hopefully this will soon change in the future, if Irish cricket keeps going from success to success!

 

[Goughy]

This should be required reading before posting in this thread

ICC- Ireland High Performance Review

 

[Smudge]

That's just one idea. The issue is complex. Its like how New Zealand & Australia poach a lot of talented Pacific Island rugby players who are looking for a better life.

I'm not going to bite at this one, Brumby. It's not my fault if Triple Crown has essentially no idea about the migratory patterns of New Zealand.

 

[Triple Crown]

Overnite, Ireland beats Bangladesh

I'm not going to bite at this one, Brumby. It's not my fault if Triple Crown has essentially no idea about the migratory patterns of New Zealand.

It cannot be denied that there have been / are players in the Wallabies & All Blacks who, in a perfect world, could/would have played for a Pacific Island Nation instead.

I'm simply stating a point. Its also understandable why it happens.

 

[LA ICE-E]

Ireland is going to be on the main odi table now!!!!! they won and tied 3 matches against test nations in their maiden world cup, impresive.
http://www.icc-cricket.com/odi/associates.html

 

[Smudge]

It cannot be denied that there have been / are players in the Wallabies & All Blacks who, in a perfect world, could/would have played for a Pacific Island Nation instead.

I'm simply stating a point. Its also understandable why it happens.

Sitiveni Sivivatu for New Zealand. Who else in the All Blacks?